The video card makes the difference!

[Geofa 108]

:-eek :-lol :-lolhttp://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

[MM 422]

Geof,Great news. Delighted to have your enthusiasm rekindled.Now, how does your new card display the VC in the Debonair v2.0? (Hint, hint....)Mike

[Geofa 108]

It does and it looks very nice! Now you have to bug James Eden to get it out-I am only a beta tester myself at this point! I think at this point he is just waiting for another person who is doing detailed human figures (so you can see the bags under my eyes) in the model.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

[Guest]

Simon - You'll do fine with the 4200. Except for the clock speeds the 4200, 4400, and 4600 are functinally identical. I can OC my 4200 easily to 4400 speeds and almost get it up to that of a 4600. But the difference in FS2002 framerates is less than 10% between the highest and lowest clock settings. To me, that's not worth the cost difference. If you want to run the 4200 at 4400 speeds all you have to do is reset the clocks to 275/550 and it's done - no additional cooling is required. Most manufacturers include some sort of utility which will allow you to change the clock speeds. But if not, you can get the job done with either RivaTuner or the new control panel that comes with the 40.41 drivers.TripNorthwood 2.2a at 2.72Ghz Abit TH7II-R512MB Samsung 40ns PC800Gainward 64MB GF4 Ti4200 300/57040.41's DX8.1 WinXP ProInwin case / Enermax 431W PSU3DMark2001SE = 13089http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330740

[Guest]

Phil - The GF4 Ti series is probably the best thing, for the moment at least, when looking at FS2002. The cards come in three versions, the Ti4200, Ti4400, and Ti4600 (ignore the "MX" models as they're not DX8 compliant and are little better than a GF2). Functionally the Ti4xxx cards are the same and the only difference is the clock speed. If the card is primarily, or only, for FS2002 my advice would be stick with the Ti4200 as it's the least expensive and the CPU-intensive nature of FS2002 won't let any processor now available fully drive the 4400 or 4600. But if it's for a mix of games then go for the fastest clock speed your pocketbook can tolerate. My choice on brandname is Gainward - they are very well built, priced right, and are readily available most everywhere. As far as the power supply, anything under a well-regulated 300W can be problematic with a GF4. But there are so many variables as to the power requirements of the existing components that the only real way to know for sure is plug the card in and see what happens. Sounds a little unscientific but unless you have all the necessary specs on the existing stuff to do a good power calculation it's the only way to tell - other than just changing the PSU up front.Trip - He Who Can't Spell But Edits Well Northwood 2.2a at 2.72Ghz Abit TH7II-R512MB Samsung 40ns PC800Gainward 64MB GF4 Ti4200 300/57040.41's DX8.1 WinXP ProInwin case / Enermax 431W PSU3DMark2001SE = 13089http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330740

[Guest]

Comment and Question:I recently got an XFX GF4 Ti4200 from Costco.com for $145 and I've been very happy with it thus far. (I also noted that CompUSA has a PNY Verto 64MB Ti4200 advertised for $129 after rebates).I have not overclocked or tweaked my card. At 250/513 MHz (it came clocked at 513 rather than 500?) it ran 9016 on the std 3D BechMark 2001SE, and I've been very happy thus far with the results in FS2002. (The GF2 MX400 I replaced ran 2820 on the same test).My question is that when I eventually get around to tweaking, what does everyone use for the GF4 Ti4200? I saw NVHardPage at guru3d, I believe. Any recommendations on the best tweaker for this series? I used to have GFTweaker and NVMax, but I don't believe they support this series. (also, I have an AMD 1800+, 512 Ram and Windows XP/1).(This question probably should go in the hardware forum, but since the thread is going here with a much wider view.......)Thanks, Steve J.

[Guest]

Steve - If you just want to do the simple tweaks like changing the clocks, LOD, and FSAA you might want to look at using the new conrol panel that comes with the 40.41 drivers. For the more esoteric stuff I think the best bet is RivaTuner ( www.guru3d.com/rivatuner/ ). Taking the card to 4400 spec (275/550) will get you another 350-450 on the 3DMark 2001 SE score and you may be able to put another 300 on top of that depending on how high the card's memory will clock. It won't make much of a difference in the FS2002 framerate but with other games it could be a much more significant improvement.TripNorthwood 2.2a at 2.72Ghz Abit TH7II-R512MB Samsung 40ns PC800Gainward 64MB GF4 Ti4200 300/57040.41's DX8.1 WinXP ProInwin case / Enermax 431W PSU3DMark2001SE = 13089http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330740

[Guest]

Thanks, Trip, for the info. I had read on some forums that the 40.41s still had some problems and was waiting for WHQL certification (still using 30.82's). I take it that you recommend going with the beta 40.41 driver? (Have you heard how much longer until certified 40.41s are released?). One final Q, what LOD do you use for FS2002, and are there any other tweaks you find particularly effective for FS2002 with the Ti4200? Thanks again. Steve J.

[Guest]

I concur that sticking to the GF4 4200 is the way to go unless you have a P4 3.5 gig cpu.I have just installed a Leadteck TI GF4 4600 on a quick 2.26 system and it does not warrant the 750 South Pacific Pesos (Aussie Dollars) that it cost me. These top of the line TI's need 3 gig or higher to get the best out of them,We dream of paying those prices Downunder GF4 4200 = $550 down here.Cookie

[Guest PhilC]

Trip,Thanks a lot for the insightful and very helpful input.After my fiasco with the ATI 9700 I have a bad taste in my mouth and am a little paranoid. Especially about the power supply issue. Any idea what might happen if the PS can't carry the video card load? I mean, would the screen just go black, lock up, explode in my face...Thanks again.

[Guest]

There is a problem on the 40.41's but it's a minor one. The control panel sets the anisotropic filtering to "1" initially and once it's moved to any other value and then returned to "1" it defaults to zero and needs a driver reinstall to fix. Other than that :-) they work fine. I know the drivers have been resubmitted for certification but I have no idea when that may occur. There is no harm in trying them - if they are not to your liking just reinstall an earlier version. After a lot of playing around I've settled on running the LOD bias at -.5, the anisotropic filtering at level 8 (64-tap), and the FSAA at 4sX.TripNorthwood 2.2a at 2.72Ghz Abit TH7II-R512MB Samsung 40ns PC800Gainward 64MB GF4 Ti4200 300/57040.41's DX8.1 WinXP ProInwin case / Enermax 431W PSU3DMark2001SE = 13089http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330740

[Guest]

If the power supply is too light you'll probably see either a blank screen or, if there is an image, a lot of funny looking black triangles popping on and off randomly. There is also possibility that the computer won't POST if the PS output is really low. Or, if it's just marginal, that all will look OK for awhile but then you'll get random lockups. It's hard to predict, but it won't blow up :-). Any way you can get a handle on the output of the existing supply? They usually have a sticker or a metal plate attached with some minimal specs (you will probably have to open the case to see it).

[Guest]

Trip,Could you point me to the extra tweaks? I've got the 40.41's with a PNY Ti4200, XP Home. I notice that on the first page with the card name and driver info, the Additional Properties button to the left of the NVIDIA on the Internet button is grayed out (well, it's XP, maybe beige'd out would be a better description ;-))...is that where they are, and if so, how do I get at 'em?jb

[Guest]

PhilC,My experience re: power supplies...I've got an IBM NetVista A22p, (1.6GHz P4/400MHz FSB/i845 chipset/640RAM) that has a 185W ps. Came with a GeForce2 MX400 32MB, which didn't do much for FS2k2, but the ps minimums for all the good cards kept me away from upgrading. Anyway...While wasting some IBM bandwidth recently putting together a new system I noticed they were offering the Ti4200 with a machine internally identical to mine (faster P4 though), 185W ps and all. Figured this has gotta be a misprint so, since it's still under warranty, I called IBM TS. No misprint. Actually, the tech said go ahead with a 4600 if I wanted, the ps they put in the boxes will power the provided slots (3 PCI (modem installed, 2 open), AGP) and bays (16x10x40x CD-RW, ATA-100 7200 HD, floppy, 2 open). He didn't suggest OC'ing however ;-) So I got a PNY Ti4200/64, works great, no problems whatsoever. I'm guessing this has more to do with IBM quality and power management than any general suggestion that 185W is enough, but for my machine it works great, and man, what a difference in FS2k2.jbSidenote on IBM TS: it's excellent, one of the reasons I've owned several boxes over the years despite the extra $...worth every penny. Actually still have a PC330, 133MHz Pentium (no numerals, just Pentium ;-)) with a whopping 64MB RAM and S3 video that still runs as new after thousands of hours as a W95, currently 98SE test box. If IBM made a box equivalent in power and price to a maxed out Dell 8200 (which has a 250W ps and can be ordered with the Ti's or 9700) I'd order now.

[Guest]

jb - They're listed on the pop-out window that appears on the lefthand side of the main screen. You can do most things directly from there but if you want to set a specific LOD value you'll still need RivaTuner (especially if you want a negative LOD).Trip