Ariane name change....suprise suprise

[Guest UweR]

Hi, to clarify what I meant I

[Guest B52Drivr]

Dear Mike,Your posts always bring a smile to my face. You are a class act!You are so correct, Ariane has so well hidden it's name, I would have never guessed they were the same. .I think I would be honored to stand besides you on most subjects. Carry on Sir!Best,Clayton T. DopkeMajor, USAF (retired)"Drac"B52Drivr@aol.com

[Vulcan 14]

Mike,With all due respect not 'all' of us know about PT otherwise people would not be posting here about problems with the Ariane product or customer service.The other thing that concerns me, which seems to have been forgotten, is considering the past reputation of PT have we any guarantee that the developers will be paid for their work?The latter point in itself is good reason, IMO, not to purchase.Rgds

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Uwe,Forgiving someone as horrid as PT (and you certainly know how horrid) is like forgiving the guy who stole your car and trashed your garage. So he keeps coming back over and over, stealing your cars and trashing your garage.A scammer is a scammer. I'd like to point out that EFIS98 was also a great product, but it wasn't his and he screwed the author if you remember. No? And what about London Airports/UK2000? Is Gary happy he dealt with PT? No he isn't.If we forgive and forget, it never stops and more scammers will come along because they will see no problem selling, rather, not selling anything to everyone while screwing the customer and the authors.Besides that fact, someone needs to tell me if it's legal for him to even have this company with everything else of his in receivership. It also makes me wonder if Inland Revenue is aware of this.

[Guest]

No, however Ariane could sue AVSIM for libel. And besides, wouldn't you feel better with some real proof?http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/westcoastair/sig.jpghttp://www.flightsimnetwork.com/westcoastair

[Guest Scott Campbell]

Clayton,I doubt the name change it to hide from us. His creditors, Inland Revenue, and bankruptcy court would have a lot to say about this.

[Guest]

oh jeeze. I have broken my promies.Hi Vulcan:I admire that you have concern for the developers, as we all do. The Ariane developers are a class act as I have had the opportunity to correspond with them on a more personal level. Their work and attention to detail is spectacular. The customer service, download issues et al my leave something to be desired after all, but....YOU are worried that the developers won't be paid for their work, so you won't patronize them because of Tishma? So they don't sell any products so you guarantee that they won't be paid for their work because they have no revenue? How does that help those you are concerned about??? I'm baffled here?!In the same token. If I (anyone here) were to find out that after the great effort Ariane has exacted to create quality work that they got stiffed then I would be on the bandwagon faster than $#!T though a goose, but you nor I have proof that this is the case and I, again, won't ostrisize Ariane based on current speculation or peer pressure.No one here has complained about Ariane products, except about the ability to download the product (which would be a concern if you are a narrowband user - not to be made little of! I think they need to fix this right away!) However this is all mixed in with complaints about:FS2002, stutters, blurries, 22,000 airports but MS is to lazy to make them all detailed, hatred of the virtual panel, default aircraft not detailed enough, default flight dynamics suck, et al.PSS products, support, employee attitude problems, flight charateristics, realism, download problems, registration problems, et al.Dreamfleet, this button is missing, FMC problems, lockups, et al.Even PIC-767, why is this missing, why didn't they do that, how come they don't do a 757, et al?Even POSKY, who work for free has been blasted for everything from poor flight dynamics to "holier than thou attitues"!You see, Vulcan, Ariane is no more perfect than any other vendor in our community, neither are they any worse (biased perception not withstanding). Quite frankly, if the only complaint that I've heard so far about the Ariane 737 Analog panel having incorrect fonts :-lol is all that can be said, then I do believe that they are on par at least with everyone else. Even as such, most people blasting Ariane don't even own one of their products! Is that fair???Vulcan, I have been raised to see the silver lining in every cloud and call me stupid (feel free! :-lol ) but until the accusations of Ariane being bent on the destruction of our hobby rears itself as true, I will side with fairness and reason instead of vengence unleached by the mob.I mean, jeeze, if the USA and Germany can become allies why can't WE in this community accept that our prior war was won definitively against Tishma and welcome 'Ariane' into this community as long as they uphold the strict standards that we all hold dear. And if the opposite were true I do believe we are a very formidable force with which most would NOT want to reckon!!!!! Just ask Tishma! :-)Just my opinion. Best regards to you and yours,Mike T.

[Guest]

Well said, as always, Mike. Well said...

[Guest SoarPics]

Hi Mike,I always look forward to your posts... in fact I'll read any thread that has a post by you. Why? Because your points are always well thought out and well reasoned. But I have to disagree with your (and others) perspective here.The issue is not whether Ariane, as a group of developers, is any good or not. I don't fly the heavy iron, so i can't speak of their work... other than what I've read here and at other forums. It's nice stuff.But the issue is Tishma, not Ariane (as a group of developers).Tishma is not good for the hobby, so therefore anybody associated with Tishma cannot be good for the hobby. That is the perception, Mike, and you know as well as I that in business perceptions carry alot of weight.So if Ariane (as a group of developers) wishes to be taken seriously by us the consumers, they must at some point in time divest themselves of Tishma. Then, and only then, will the consumer take them seriously.And no doubt Tishma will then search out other developers to make money off of (which is okay... that's the way business works), but they, too, will have to fight off the Tishma stigma. And make the choice between surviving in the business end of this hobby... or remaining with Tishma. The smart developers will drop him like a hot rock.This perspective presented by a businessman, not a hobbyist (remmember... I don't fly the heavy iron).Cut out the cancer... or the cancer will destroy the body.Respectfully,

[Guest]

Ariane cannot sue anyone - since they are not a registered company they are not a "legal entity", so only the person behind the company is in a position to sue. Having made one of the "calls" myself I feel I have had real proof - if people don't/won't/can't accept the facts then that is their loss !!!

[Guest]

IM sorry about this but we are talking about the man who want's to take freewaire of the Web!!!!!1 has stolen load's of softwaire!!!!!!!! 1 of witch was MINE!!!!!!!!I Run a store in UK calld Game.... a verry larg compy.and well known.He Stole 1 pice of my softwaire that was on my web page. and he changed a bit of it and put it with 1 of his addon's.You must understand what this man dose to people......he dont cair about the FSWorld or the people using it just the $$$$1 day he will come across people like me and be Verry sorryRussell

[Guest Toni Rauch]

Guys,Firstly sorry for 'bunching' my comments on your posts into one but as your statements are inter-related, this saves repetitive posts to each of you.Mike, you say that given proof, you'd be the first to condemn Ariane if developers had done work and, as you put it, 'got stiffed'. Well Mike, YOU CAN BE FIRST! On my files, I have all the proof needed to confirm that Ariane did not pay more than one developer for work done and supplied, which was subsequently published by them. These are not unwarranted accusations - the proof is there, believe me! (I'm sorry, but for legal reasons the proof cannot be shown to the public YET). Regarding what Ariane is 'up to' now, you KNOW that Tom wouldn't have written what he did if adequate proof didn't exist. And if the phone calls to Tishma's office and the contract extract aren't enough, what is? It's not a matter, as Adam suggested, of having a case that would 'stand up in Court'. This community isn't a court and discussions that a good lawyer could 'punch holes' in the proof are irrelevant, as are references to 'previous wars won against Tishma'. The FACTS, which are real enough, speak for themselves and in this case, the leopard certainly hasn't changed it's spots.Why are Ariane STILL under fire NOW? Because 'Ariane' is still acting inherently dishonestly by hiding behind various personas who don't exist, because Ariane is still not giving customers the refunds they're entitled to for products not supplied (for WHATEVER reason, bandwidth problems included...), because Ariane are still writing caustic and insulting/threatening e-mails to customers, while others are totally ignored, because Ariane are selling products which, since the limited companies went bust, aren't theirs to sell, etc. etc.To Adam, I ask a simple question. Since this whole thing blew up when Avsim published the expose on Tishma just a few short days ago, have you received another '...it's all a lie and a conspiracy' email from 'Bobbo'? You were happy to accept the truth at the weekend - what's changed since then? Do you suddenly feel less 'used' or less lied to by Tishma than you did on Sunday? How much further proof do you guys need? Admittedly, it's not all there yet (for reasons already stated), but what IS there cannot be disputed. FACT!!!And as for suggestions of 'forgive and forget', you can't forgive someone who hasn't apologised or even accepted wrong-doing. Peter Tishma has not only refused to acknowledge any of the harm he's done to the community, commercial and otherwise, he's still using the same old tricks to keep 'screwing people' as he has for years. There's not a shred of remorse or humility from him, let alone an apology!As Adam said, "the man has no honour" (not a typo - that's how it should be spelt).Hardly a witch-hunt; more a statement of facts and a warning to the uninformed.Toni.

[Guest]

Don't get me wrong, I do not like Tishma. Not at all. And if Ariane is run by him, I'd be more than happy to end our "relationship". However, I don't want to do that until I'm absolutely convinced. AVSIM has not convinced me. At this point I'm neither defending nor attacking Ariane, I just want more evidence. I don't think that is too much to ask for.And yes, I have still been in contact with "Bobbo". He too has yet to provide me with any evidence. He has denied all of AVSIM's charges, though.It's like I'm stuck in the middle, and neither Ariane nor AVSIM is willing to get me on their side.http://www.flightsimnetwork.com/westcoastair/sig.jpghttp://www.flightsimnetwork.com/westcoastair

[Guest Toni Rauch]

AdamI really don't think this should be a case of either Avsim or Ariane 'getting you on their side'. You are the person still being 'used', and you must decide for yourself who'd telling the truth and who's lying to you.It's really simple! Ask 'Bobbo' for his real (and full) name! And ask him for the real names of anyone else at Ariane! Then phone Regus in Luton and ask them why they keep telling everyone Tishma is 'not available at the moment - here's Ariane's direct number...'. Are all the people who have made that call and got the same (or very similar) responses lying too? Then ask 'Bobbo' why receipts for 'earlier' Ariane purchases were issued by Corporate Worldwide Limited if they had nothing to do with Ariane? Then ask 'Bobbo' why he issued contracts to various developers in the name of 'Ariane/Corporate Worldwide Limited' and why these contracts were signed by Peter Tishma on behalf of Ariane/Corporate Worldwide Limited. And so on, and so on, AND SO ON!!!You feel like you're 'stuck in the middle'? PLEASE!!!!!Toni.

[Guest]

again Scott, where is "HE" scamming the flightsim public now? From what I've read, the new product is nothing short of fantastic. I don't see anyone with the current Ariane plane complaining, except about downloads. Please explain to me where the current "scamripoff" is??