crashing is such a downer!

[briansommers 74]

MAN AM I UPSET! i simulate a one man business air charter company.and i took off from KTOA (where my office is located) and had my copilot with me and we were going to fly to KSBA to pick up some passengers. I use FSMaintenance and I was about 88% and better on all systems and thought that would be fine (am I wrong here??, should I have "fixed" a few of the essentials?)so we took off using Flight 1's Cessna 421 and climb out everything was fine, I filed IFR and atc gave me my descent to 3400 and i noticed that when i leveled out my a/s was showing 170kias, mmmmm... i thought maybe pitot tube froze so i turned on pitot heat and checked the temp and it was showing 56deg F. mmmmm really big mmm now, cause im thinking i think something is whacked,then i get my final descent and my final hdg to turn to to intercept the ILS and i noticed that the a/p isnt picking it up and i realize its not holding my alt. either, so im thinking all crap is breaking loose here, so i take over manaully immed. and then a loud winding down sound and then i started to really get nervous and i realized i had lost an engine, and i notice my hsi, was off and i had lost vacuum as well, no a/s nothing. it took me a while to figure out which eng. died and it was the left one feathered the prop and shut the engine down, (im thinking maybe i should have just tried to shoot for the closest a/p) but i kept going and all was well, i had a good approach to KSBA I was a little to the left then...i lowered the gear, thank God that come down, all was still finenow, the next step i lowered my flaps (is this where i managed to screw it up?? should i have not done that??)all of sudden the planes controls got mushy so i lowered the nose thinking that i was about to stall it out, remember no a/s indicator so i have no idea how fast/slow i was going.and the ground came up and the runway dissapeared and i saw treess right beside me - level with me (not a good sign at all) i looked forward and there was a big yellow bldg and that was the end of that!where did i screw up?? i thought for sure i could land it with one engine, should i have NOT deployed flaps??anyway i know its just a sim, but when you spend 45 min. flight planning and trying to do everything by the book and you end of crashing, MAN AM I UPSET, I CANT FLY FOR A WHILE I HAVE TO JUST COOL OFF, SO DISSAPOINTING, I consider myself a serious and above avg. fltsimmer and this, what a bummer. I feel like a total doofus.anyway, any help on what went wrong?? here are some pix, aren't i high enough to the a/p (i admit a bit off center but still)ciao!Brian S

[briansommers 74]

ok, ive had some time to rationaly think about it, im still upset my not as much.I think, if i have to honest with myself, i need to start over and learn the basics, start with the C182 (i have the good airfile) and learn how to fly EVERYTHING BY HAND!!! a/p is a crutch! and im going to start to learn to hand fly and ILS aproach in minimums by hand.btw, if you haven't noticed I take fltsimming very seriously.what is a good oh.. i cant think of the word... aircraft ladder.. noo. i mean whats the next step up from a C182??I want to be able to use my payware a/c if someone could rate these in order i should take it from easiest to most difficult.here is my list of what I think, please tell me if this isn't correctC182 - single piston ( or i should probably use my payware Piper cherokee II - it would probably be better - should learn both I guess.?? now im confused, do i go to single enging turboprop? like C208 or twin piston like Baron 58??then what?where do i do the float thing?I have the following payware a/c that i would like to fit in this as well.Commander 115TC (single eng. t/p ?? correct?)Cessna 421 (flight 1)Piper Cheyeene 400LS (FSD)piper super cub (fsd) - and where does tail draggers come into play?then after the cheyeene 400ls then what to the new PSS Dash8-300? (im planning to purchase that when it comes out)am i then ready for a small jet? like the freeware Falcon 50 ?? then what, when should i tackle the DF734, and the DF727 when it come out?etc.thanksciao!Brian S

[Guest Dakota]

I haven't flown the C421 on one engine, but I do know in landing it, I rarely use flaps and you have to keep the power on, do not idle all the way back or it will fall like a rock.

[Chris_CYWG 0]

I fly Co-Pilot on a Navajo Cheiftain, and during my training we had the left engine go and we had it feathered. The plane still flies VERY WELL in real life, and I think that engine outs are exagerated to a point in the sim.As for some answers to your questions...The standard multi drill when you suspect an engine lose (the way I was trained anyways)Mixtures Pitch Power all to the firewallGear UP, Flaps UP UNLESS COMMITED TO THE LANDING Ie you are short final.Verify, Identify - Look at the ball on the Turn and Bank co-ordinator, and STEP on the ball...dead foot dead engine, cross check engine gauges.Cause check. Fire, Ice, Fuel, Oil Problem?Drill accordingling, verify/identify.Throttle closed, Prop featherded, Mixture ICO, clean up the other items per checklist (ie fuel off, boost pumps off on effected engine, alternator off, reduce electrical load) Declare an emergency, brief your passengers.As for landing single... you want to come in FASTER than normal. Normally we approach at 110 knots in the Cheiftain, engine out, about 116... Gear is OK to lower once you know you are going to have the runway no problem... do NOT lower flaps until short final though... there is just too much drag created with them down..especially if you dump them all. Chris

[briansommers 74]

"there is just too much drag created with them down..especially if you dump them all."yep, then thats probably it, cause in my panic i dumped them all thinking that i was short enough and high enough when in reality i really do think i was high enough, but obviously i wasn't short enough, because as soon as i dumped them then the controls were mushy then wham!thanksciao!Brian S

[Guest Moghdad]

Nice screen shots, especially the second one. I can see the yellow building near the runway threshold...! Was this about where you dropped your flaps? I wonder why, habit? You are not at all high, maybe a bit low, so there might not be any need for flaps. If you were also slow, you might have to compensate for flaps by adding power--not good on one engine. You ran out of power and crashed.Like you I also hate crashing in FS2002 and try to avoid it. I am really attached to my virtual life!

[briansommers 74]

yep thats the yellow building i made a lawn dart out of my plane into it. i have a pic of it but didn't post it since im not try to glorify crashing.actually i dropped my flaps shortly after, yes just out of habit. i was so freaked out that it actually happened, my head was swirling. thats why im planning to start over with flight 1 piper archer and then move up. i should have made it and thats WHAT REAAAALLLY TICKS ME OFF!!ciao!Brian S

[Guest Moghdad]

I tried a failed engine on the 421 once. Even at full power with the dead prop feathered, the plane would not hold altitude. What did you find?

[Chris_CYWG 0]

Not holding altitude.What speed were you guys holding?? (I don't have this addon, or know 421 speeds) but Go for blue line on the airspeed indicator. The aircraft should still be able to climb at the blue line in the sim..real world density atitude etc would hamper this, but in the sim you should be able to climb.Chris

[briansommers 74]

interesting... i don't know my a/s since my a/s indicator failed as well. when it first happened it was all fine.. so.. i should try again and purposly fail one engine and not lower flaps and see what happensciao!Brian S

[Guest Moghdad]

Yes, try again and let us know. If you were low and slow on this approach and the plane will not hold altitute with a failed engine, you may have crashed regardless of flaps or not.I notice from the screenshot that you are well to the left of the centerline. That would leave you to make a final course correction close to the approach end of the runway--in fact, turning left just about over your yellow building. That might also increase your sink rate on short final. Did you stall? You mentioned first seeing trees through your side windows, then the building ahead. That might suggest that the plane was in a very nose-high attitude.

[Guest Heather 636]

I know just how you feel Brian.Had the same thing happen to me a few days ago, crash that is.http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID43/1013.htmlIt's one thing to auger in when you are messing around with something you just downloaded to see how it handles, but quite another when you are flying "seriously".It is very sobering.I am no newbie to sim flying and this is only the second time I have had a mishap on a "serious" flight. Also, like you, I use FSMaintenance; puts a whole new immersion level into the flying.What was the most embarrassing thing about my second crash, is that I made the very same mistake I did on the first one. Turning into a blind valley in mountain country, having the walls close in too close to turn around and suddenly discovering you have run out of valley but not enough power to climb out of it.EVERYBODY makes mistakes and I try very hard to learn by mine, never repeating the same one twice. All the more reason this second crash was so embarrassing, the same mistake TWICE.Good luck with your learning experience.Cheers!Heather