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An open letter to Tom and the Avsim staff

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>What happened between Mike and AVSIM is their business. Mike >has not gone into detail, and AVSIM have not responded >publically. This is between Mike and AVSIM only, and any >'judging' of the facts is therefore ludicrous since the only >people who know them are those involved. >>So why hit out at Mike? He was just saying a polite >'goodbye'. Na, na, Toni! It seems you have overread some parts of Mike's post. He makes some cryptic accuses is complaining about certain things, which at least I have not full yunderstood. It seems the main reason for this post was, to find vent for his feeling beeing uncorrectly treaten by AVSIM.>Why have a go at Anniette personally, or anyone else who's >not directly involved?Aniette (although also not directly involved) startet hit out at people, who have a different opinion than her and Mike,so she does not have to wonder to get hit by those hit by her first.>Mike has every right to post his message here - he, like >everyone else, shouldn't be slammed for doing so. Nobody slammed Mike in fisrt instance. It was Matts post, which was IMHO a very objective and fair pointing out of AVSIM's view of this matter. But this post was found of being too offensive in the view of some peolple (not in mine at all). This turned the thread into what it is now.Wolfgang

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I was trying to decide what, if anything, merited comment here. For a while, I was going to keep my mouth shut and hope that this thread just went off to the electronic slag heap someplace. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that we're going to get that.What saddens me in all of this is the name calling and divisve nature of the thread. I've seen words like crybaby, idiot, and soap opera thrown about in here. This is normally a place for reasoned and reasonable discourse. I cannot understand why it's been allowed to degenerate to this point.Allowed to degenerate? Absolutely. I'll back that up with an example:Tom Allensworth recently posted a message relating to EasyJet's purchase of new birds from Airbus as opposed to the Boeing aircraft which they are currently flying. Very quickly, that thread took a dive to the sewer with the Airbus and Boeing fans slinging nationalistic and company centric mud at one another. Tom closed the thread.Here, we have a talented freeware aircraft designer who's taken what seems to have been a private matter and brought it public. Along the Airbus-Boeing lines, we have now got an argument of authors and readers v. AVSIM and another of authors v. people who don't care for their work and another yet which I can only call "bickering for the sheer simple joy of doing so." I've seen Tom and the AVSIM staff lock or delete many such threads over the time I've lurked and posted here. Why has this one not been? I would hope that it's not a case of AVSIM staff feeling a bit of anger at Mike going public and allowing a possibly humiliating thread to carry on. Unfortunately, that's one way that somebody could see this.For those of you who wish to continue calling people names... Please let's try to behave like the adults we all purport to be. If you don't like Mike Stone's aircraft, so be it. Say so. If you don't like Mike Stone taking this public, then that's within your right, too. Say that it probably should have been kept behind closed doors and handled privately as gentlemen used to do. If you don't like how AVSIM runs their business, there are other options. Write a letter to the editor. Remove AVSIM from your daily wanderings. Take AVSIM.com from your favorites. Make a statement in a polite, proper, adult fashion.I honestly hope that cooler heads prevail here. I hope that Mike Stone does not take his fantastic aircraft out of the AVSIM library (even though I don't Mike's jet models... I'm a prop guy). I also hope that Mike doesn't choose to go the way of other freeware modelers and either give up completely or go payware. After what I've seen here, I'd not blame him for doing either.I hope that AVSIM does the right thing, too. This thread should be closed so that more people don't embarass themselves and nauseate others.Of course, as Dennis Miller has often said, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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The fact that this thread is still open is a very obvious nod of respect to Mike Stone by Avsim for his past contributions.This is all such a shame. I'm so sick of people and their "rules" for forum behaviour, jumping all over people for bad days or bad judgement...it's NEVER going to be a "business-like" exchange -- that's a clear misunderstanding of the nature of all internet forums.it's a family, and so we bicker, we have our prodigal sons, we move on and forget about it...the only shame is that so many of you see allowing and acknowleging the sore toes of those who give so much of their time to our hobby as somehow not worth the value of what you've gotten in return.For each aircraft Mike Stone has given us, I'd personally read through one long thread of misunderstandings/expressions of hurt feelings and still feel like I owe him more than that.And just a quick look on my harddrive reveals that Mike could post about 20 more of these before I'd feel I'm even close to even.mpedited for spelling

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Sorry Wolfgang, but I believe you're mistaken in a couple of areas:I don't find anything 'cryptic' in what Mike said in the original post. Although not wishing to speak for him, what he said seems perfectly clear to me and there's no 'between the lines' comments or accusations at all. Merely an explanation of his decision.Similarly, Matt's response has very little to do with what Mike said. He's given his overall personal perspective on AVSIM and those involved in it.And although Anniette did mention certain 'contributors' by name (or alias), she too has been maliciously attacked by some similar-minded individuals over her work and contributions which I believe gave rise to her comments. That's perfectly understandable under the circumstances, but has nothing to do with those who might disagree with Mike's position.I think, with respect, that you're looking for stuff which simply isn't there. And as I said before, this forum isn't the place for personal mud-slinging or 'political' point-scoring.Toni.

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Wow,To Mike: Nice stuff sorry to see ya go!!To Avsim: Probably should have ended this one a bit earlier me thinks!!!To the rest: Do ya really care that much!!!!!Don

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I second that!! I typed the same type of response a few times, but decided not to post. The one time I did voice my opinion on a thread similar to this(a few months back), the "locals" accused me of being a troll, and told me to go away, even though I've been simming since many of them were born.I fully agree, this nonsense has to stop already. These threats are just plain silly. As I said before, if you leave, someone will take your place.

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I agree with Bill, this thread is not serving anyone's interest and should be closed. I see no need for name calling. Mike Stone has the absolute right to do as he pleases with his copyrighted material. Avsim has the absolute right to control the content of their site. And the rest of us have should graciously accept the gifts that talented others give us and leave it at that.

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Actually Clayton, you might want to rethink who you blame for the demise of freeware/Mike Stone.Unless I'm seeing things, Mike's original message says "I'll leave and not cause anymore trouble". He's quiting because of Avsim, the site that "made" him (as ridiculous as that is), not Fred.

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who is being run off? Mike is stating he wants to leave, and the reason i keep saying soap opera is that he has before been "willing" to return once folks beg him too.No one being run off that I can see, just folks finally have gotten tired of this "game" designed to created additional adjulation.B

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I wrote to Avsim just now and asked to lock or delete this damned thread. This is rediculous! Too much has been said by too many and I know some are madder then hell about it. Too many feelings are hurt and this is accomplishing NOTHING here. Talk about burning up bandwidth! Let's move on. Mike has made his decission. Let's be done with the armchair quarterbacking and do something productive. If you all need something to do, I can suggest making me some GMax cabins or some GMax vehicles! THAT would be PRODUCTIVE! :) Don

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no perspective here, alpha...you are young, eh?

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Alpha is just putting pressure on the community to produce the additional adjulation that she and Mike seem to need every few weeks.B

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Anniette,Since I'm privileged to be on your list of "bad seeds", let me tell you something.First, you know not ONE thing about who I am, the type of person I am or what involvement I have in this community. Just because I'm not part of your click here has no relevance whatsoever. So please, think before you type.I paint planes (have for years) and I have many people I correspond with outside of this forum. Do you really need to ask why I DON'T get more involved here? Excuse me while I have a laugh!!As for people being a star, please...give me a break.

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