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An open letter to Tom and the Avsim staff

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As I said this hobby is going downhill and so are the majority of players.All I can say is get a life Oh, this isn't one upmanship? This is having respect? This is helping this hobby?

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My enthusiasm has been severily damaged by the few Idiotes that live in this site like Dominique ,gasebah, Ray, SamBob, mgdbottled JeffCole,Piper22 ,Fred Michaels, bob 5568 Who seem to enjoy making people feel small and really serve no perpose at all ,unlike People like mike stone who bring pleasure to thousands of people .Well Anniette, you haven't seen most of my posts then, esp. over at BFU. I've also seen this "B.S." Posted too many times by the same individual. Now he is placing a "Private" matter into a "Public" forum and we are supposed to feel bad or support him. I'm sorry, but no matter who you are, what you have created or what you have done before there is no excuse for airing your private dirty laundry in a public forum.Did he really think it wouldn't come to this? Maybe....maybe he thought a bunch of his buddies would come crying to his side and beg him to stay. That's all I see here. AVSIM obviously has "Their side" of the story and they didn't see fit to air it in this very Public forum, why did Mike????If that makes me an idiot you are free to your opinion Anniette.

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What is your "motive"I am wondering ?Well My "Idiote"List is growing bigger By the minute and I Never Judge People Lightly ,but when I see the same names over and again as I have already Mentioned ,Complaining and Points making in there comments and Calling people Names to try and appear Humourous (Failing sadly) then what else conclusion can I reach other than these people are Idiotes?I do not give a Care in the world to you people ,but I do care about this Avsim becoming another Victim of you people and all the Really Good people who visit here Becoming Put off by your Negative and Pathetic attempts at being Popular without doing anything that means much effort.I care about this Place and I feel Idiotes was a Restrained use of your Language :)Anyway I have pets to clean upAnniette xxxxxxxx

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What I want to know is why this thread has gotten to the point that it is at. This should have been stopped way before it got to this point. I have seen threads stopped for way less then this. Don

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>What is your "motive"I am wondering ? It's to visit a place where there's a business-like and informed exchange of information and ideas, and to learn from it and occasionally contribute to it.>Well My "Idiote"List is growing bigger By the minute and I >Never Judge People LightlyI too have formed impressions of many of the folks who contribute here; where those opinions are negative, I don't share them or make them public. I don't engage in name-calling, and emphatically recommend that other people either don't, or quit doing it if they're in the habit of doing so. But when there's an obvious negative trend going on it's sometimes constructive to point it out. That's what several people have tried to do in this thread. And frankly it's overdue.>I care about this PlaceWell then perhaps you should pay attention to the basic rules of civility and refrain from calling people you disagree with nasty names, just as the moderators so frequently advise.And in case Mike reads this, I'd like to wish him well. I've given him credit for his intelligent writings here, and he clearly has an uncommon ability to contribute thoughtfully. My only concern is with what I believe has been a distracting personality-centered phenomenon going on for some time around here, that's all. It's a phenomenon, not a person. Again, I just want to wish Mike the best, especially health-wise.

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>and saw that you and the other vultures just couldn't wait >to swoop in and pick at the carcass. Do you really think, that people here (incl. myself) have nothing better to do, than just waiting for another thread giving them the opportunity of flaming Mike Stone again? Don't you think, aou are taking yourself too important? In the beginning of this thread I was just a curious NEUTRAL reader and just second somebody's opinion, that it is not a good idea putting the whole matter into public. But after Anniett's post (maybe it was just her french temper which made her writing this) I could not resist.>Thank you my friend, you and the rest of the wolfpack have >convinced me that I made the right decision. It's a nice idea beeing a vulture amongst wolves, I'm just not sure, if this is biologically possible :-) .Wolfgang

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I do not get involved in the discussion between Mike and Avsim - that is their own bussiness - howewer - Perhaps is Mike's time to move on and progress into what he likes to be - that is a natural path for every author which produce FS addons - and wish the best of luck in whatever he will do.Regarding Anniette - is the comments as above that make me understand that far too often you get out of order - in your forum discussions.Ray

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What started out as Mike Stone explaining to the community his decision to 'leave' AVSIM has turned into a ludicrous cat fight where there can clearly be no winners.What happened between Mike and AVSIM is their business. Mike has not gone into detail, and AVSIM have not responded publically. This is between Mike and AVSIM only, and any 'judging' of the facts is therefore ludicrous since the only people who know them are those involved.So why hit out at Mike? He was just saying a polite 'goodbye'.Why hit out at AVSIM? They've said nothing at all.Why have a go at Anniette personally, or anyone else who's not directly involved? This forum, like all others, can only flourish with the goodwill of the hosts and responsible support by contributors. That means intelligent comment and adult behaviour. The forum is not a place to beat up innocent people who contribute so much for little or no personal gain.Mike has every right to post his message here - he, like everyone else, shouldn't be slammed for doing so.But comments suggesting certain people have 'delusions of grandeur' or are 'filled with their own importance' are of no benefit to anyone.I.M.H.O.Toni.

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Nice Post FredPost again . . . perhaps in about 10 years. Perhaps by then we will still have some freeware designers left for you to run off.Clayton T. DopkeMajor, USAF (retired)"Drac"B52Drivr@aol.com

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>What happened between Mike and AVSIM is their business. Mike >has not gone into detail, and AVSIM have not responded >publically. This is between Mike and AVSIM only, and any >'judging' of the facts is therefore ludicrous since the only >people who know them are those involved. >>So why hit out at Mike? He was just saying a polite >'goodbye'. Na, na, Toni! It seems you have overread some parts of Mike's post. He makes some cryptic accuses is complaining about certain things, which at least I have not full yunderstood. It seems the main reason for this post was, to find vent for his feeling beeing uncorrectly treaten by AVSIM.>Why have a go at Anniette personally, or anyone else who's >not directly involved?Aniette (although also not directly involved) startet hit out at people, who have a different opinion than her and Mike,so she does not have to wonder to get hit by those hit by her first.>Mike has every right to post his message here - he, like >everyone else, shouldn't be slammed for doing so. Nobody slammed Mike in fisrt instance. It was Matts post, which was IMHO a very objective and fair pointing out of AVSIM's view of this matter. But this post was found of being too offensive in the view of some peolple (not in mine at all). This turned the thread into what it is now.Wolfgang

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I was trying to decide what, if anything, merited comment here. For a while, I was going to keep my mouth shut and hope that this thread just went off to the electronic slag heap someplace. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that we're going to get that.What saddens me in all of this is the name calling and divisve nature of the thread. I've seen words like crybaby, idiot, and soap opera thrown about in here. This is normally a place for reasoned and reasonable discourse. I cannot understand why it's been allowed to degenerate to this point.Allowed to degenerate? Absolutely. I'll back that up with an example:Tom Allensworth recently posted a message relating to EasyJet's purchase of new birds from Airbus as opposed to the Boeing aircraft which they are currently flying. Very quickly, that thread took a dive to the sewer with the Airbus and Boeing fans slinging nationalistic and company centric mud at one another. Tom closed the thread.Here, we have a talented freeware aircraft designer who's taken what seems to have been a private matter and brought it public. Along the Airbus-Boeing lines, we have now got an argument of authors and readers v. AVSIM and another of authors v. people who don't care for their work and another yet which I can only call "bickering for the sheer simple joy of doing so." I've seen Tom and the AVSIM staff lock or delete many such threads over the time I've lurked and posted here. Why has this one not been? I would hope that it's not a case of AVSIM staff feeling a bit of anger at Mike going public and allowing a possibly humiliating thread to carry on. Unfortunately, that's one way that somebody could see this.For those of you who wish to continue calling people names... Please let's try to behave like the adults we all purport to be. If you don't like Mike Stone's aircraft, so be it. Say so. If you don't like Mike Stone taking this public, then that's within your right, too. Say that it probably should have been kept behind closed doors and handled privately as gentlemen used to do. If you don't like how AVSIM runs their business, there are other options. Write a letter to the editor. Remove AVSIM from your daily wanderings. Take AVSIM.com from your favorites. Make a statement in a polite, proper, adult fashion.I honestly hope that cooler heads prevail here. I hope that Mike Stone does not take his fantastic aircraft out of the AVSIM library (even though I don't Mike's jet models... I'm a prop guy). I also hope that Mike doesn't choose to go the way of other freeware modelers and either give up completely or go payware. After what I've seen here, I'd not blame him for doing either.I hope that AVSIM does the right thing, too. This thread should be closed so that more people don't embarass themselves and nauseate others.Of course, as Dennis Miller has often said, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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The fact that this thread is still open is a very obvious nod of respect to Mike Stone by Avsim for his past contributions.This is all such a shame. I'm so sick of people and their "rules" for forum behaviour, jumping all over people for bad days or bad judgement...it's NEVER going to be a "business-like" exchange -- that's a clear misunderstanding of the nature of all internet forums.it's a family, and so we bicker, we have our prodigal sons, we move on and forget about it...the only shame is that so many of you see allowing and acknowleging the sore toes of those who give so much of their time to our hobby as somehow not worth the value of what you've gotten in return.For each aircraft Mike Stone has given us, I'd personally read through one long thread of misunderstandings/expressions of hurt feelings and still feel like I owe him more than that.And just a quick look on my harddrive reveals that Mike could post about 20 more of these before I'd feel I'm even close to even.mpedited for spelling

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Sorry Wolfgang, but I believe you're mistaken in a couple of areas:I don't find anything 'cryptic' in what Mike said in the original post. Although not wishing to speak for him, what he said seems perfectly clear to me and there's no 'between the lines' comments or accusations at all. Merely an explanation of his decision.Similarly, Matt's response has very little to do with what Mike said. He's given his overall personal perspective on AVSIM and those involved in it.And although Anniette did mention certain 'contributors' by name (or alias), she too has been maliciously attacked by some similar-minded individuals over her work and contributions which I believe gave rise to her comments. That's perfectly understandable under the circumstances, but has nothing to do with those who might disagree with Mike's position.I think, with respect, that you're looking for stuff which simply isn't there. And as I said before, this forum isn't the place for personal mud-slinging or 'political' point-scoring.Toni.

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Wow,To Mike: Nice stuff sorry to see ya go!!To Avsim: Probably should have ended this one a bit earlier me thinks!!!To the rest: Do ya really care that much!!!!!Don

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I second that!! I typed the same type of response a few times, but decided not to post. The one time I did voice my opinion on a thread similar to this(a few months back), the "locals" accused me of being a troll, and told me to go away, even though I've been simming since many of them were born.I fully agree, this nonsense has to stop already. These threats are just plain silly. As I said before, if you leave, someone will take your place.

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I agree with Bill, this thread is not serving anyone's interest and should be closed. I see no need for name calling. Mike Stone has the absolute right to do as he pleases with his copyrighted material. Avsim has the absolute right to control the content of their site. And the rest of us have should graciously accept the gifts that talented others give us and leave it at that.

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Actually Clayton, you might want to rethink who you blame for the demise of freeware/Mike Stone.Unless I'm seeing things, Mike's original message says "I'll leave and not cause anymore trouble". He's quiting because of Avsim, the site that "made" him (as ridiculous as that is), not Fred.

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who is being run off? Mike is stating he wants to leave, and the reason i keep saying soap opera is that he has before been "willing" to return once folks beg him too.No one being run off that I can see, just folks finally have gotten tired of this "game" designed to created additional adjulation.B

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I wrote to Avsim just now and asked to lock or delete this damned thread. This is rediculous! Too much has been said by too many and I know some are madder then hell about it. Too many feelings are hurt and this is accomplishing NOTHING here. Talk about burning up bandwidth! Let's move on. Mike has made his decission. Let's be done with the armchair quarterbacking and do something productive. If you all need something to do, I can suggest making me some GMax cabins or some GMax vehicles! THAT would be PRODUCTIVE! :) Don

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Alpha is just putting pressure on the community to produce the additional adjulation that she and Mike seem to need every few weeks.B

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Anniette,Since I'm privileged to be on your list of "bad seeds", let me tell you something.First, you know not ONE thing about who I am, the type of person I am or what involvement I have in this community. Just because I'm not part of your click here has no relevance whatsoever. So please, think before you type.I paint planes (have for years) and I have many people I correspond with outside of this forum. Do you really need to ask why I DON'T get more involved here? Excuse me while I have a laugh!!As for people being a star, please...give me a break.

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