UA 727 question...Jeff S., perhaps?

[Guest Jeff S KDTW]

Thanks, Thaellar. Much appreciated. :-)I emailed Dave last night. I know he is away for a few days and will be back today (Wed). Hopefully he hasn't forgotten all that piloting stuff now that he is a "Bus" driver. ;-) (just joking) :-lolRegards,http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jsnyder99/sigs/name.jpg

[01pewterz28 117]

:D Dave the "Bus" driver I wish we all could be so lucky :)Johnualfan@msn.com

http://www.flagball.com/~jthomas/dfsig02f.jpg

[Guest]

TJ,Very few operators of the 727 have anything more sophisticated than VOR & ADF installed in their aircraft, with the exception of TCAS and GPWS. Perhaps there are some operators today that have upgraded to FMS/GPS, but largely it just wasn't cost effective due to the remaining life on the aircraft, and the fact that certification/installation costs for this type aircraft could soar to several hundred thousand $$ per aircraft. Short remaining fleet life precludes making those upgrades for most operators.... it is after all, all about profit! :-)I flew the 727 in 1987-88, and VOR NAV was indeed the norm. That is still all one REALLY needs for domestic flight ops, and it's not that bad!We had "portable INS" installations available just for ferrying the aircraft' to Europe for short contracts, but only then were they used.Though it is slightly more work, VOR Airway navigation can still get the job done today, and qualified pilots don't mind doing it, unless they are exceedingly lazy anyway! :-)Hope that answers your question....Regards,Tim Sanders

[Guest Martin]

>Though it is slightly more work, VOR Airway navigation can >still get the job done todayIn case someone wonders, airways are usually made up of VORs (and sometimes NDBs), and the intersections on the airways are always defined by two VOR radials or a VOR radial and DME.Some SIDs and STARs have intersections that are just coordinates (i.e. without any relation to a radio navaid), and then the aircraft of course needs some kind of inertial navigation to find the fix.Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

[Guest]

Thanks so much for all the great replies! I wouldn't have guessed that an airline like UA would decline to shell out the money for an FMC retrofit...but it sure is cool that they kept it old-school until the end of the '27's service! Guess I'll have to practice my airway navigation by hand on the Richard Probst panel before I take a crack at the Captain Sim or the DF version... :-beerchug:-outta

[Guest tallpilot]

Well would you be surprised to know that Northwest Airlines DC-9 fleet (over 150 airplanes) still only has Vor's and no INS or FMC? It's all I ever needed in over 8000hrs flying them.:-)Ed Weber a.k.a tallpilotNWA Retired

[Guest Jeff S KDTW]

Ed -I never realized you were a pilot for NWA. You must have a lot of incredible memories. Did you ever fly either of these:N8909Ehttp://www.airliners.net/open.file/267420/L/N8923Ehttp://www.airliners.net/open.file/264645/L/Regards,http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jsnyder99/sigs/name.jpg

[Guest]

Surprising, yes, but still very cool.Does anyone know, then, where I could get some (preferably free) airway charts--or similar documents--in order to correctly navigate the airways by hand?

[Guest Jeff S KDTW]

Tom -These are my "preferred" sites for plates:http://www.clearanceunlimited.com/main.htmhttp://edj.net/cgi-bin/echoplate.plhttp://www.airnav.com/http://www.fltplan.com/http://www.aeroplanner.com/Regards,http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jsnyder99/sigs/name.jpg

[Guest tallpilot]

Hi Jeff,I last flew Captain on DC-9 N8909E (nose # 9151)on the 6th of January 1990 from PHL to Mke. In June of that year I checked out in the DC-10 and never went back to the DC-9. I have logged a total of 8356hrs in the DC-9 and have flown -10 (series 14) -30, -40, -50 and MD-80 models. During all those hours I never had an engine failure or had to shut an engine down and the only mechanical problems were false landing gear indications, one generator failure and minor instrument failures which says a lot for the quality of the maintenance at the Airlines I flew for, (North Central/Republic/Northwest)I didn't find N8923E in my log book.Regards,Ed Weber a.k.a tallpilot

[Guest]

Thanks, but plates I already have...I'm looking for charts that would display the airways themselves/headings to fly between VORs, or at least contain some of this info in text format. I fear these sorta things are much tougher to locate online without paying.:-outta

[brucek 38]

What you need are enroute charts. These are used by all pilots flying instrument flight plans (airways); and are seperated into low altitude and high altitude charts. There are many low alt charts, and maybe 4-5 that cover the entire US at high alt ( higher than FL180). I've collected almost all of them over the years, they expire as do all aviation charts so you can pick them up quite cheaply at an airport FBO, or from a pilot. (I'm doing my instrument rating, which require a current set ).Bruce.

[Guest]

That's what I thought...thanks for the reply!:-outta

[Guest Jeff S KDTW]

That's neat stuff, Ed. I appreciate you looking up the numbers in your logbook.Being from Detroit and travelling often, I can't remember ever being aware of a mechanical failure on NW--other than their on-time service into DTW, I have been very pleased. Their on-time service, from what I've seen, has dramatically improved with the opening of the new NW midfield terminal here at DTW. It is very nice.I have one picture of the Midfield Terminal here:http://www.airliners.net/open.file/277390/L/Take care, Ed. :-)Regards,http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jsnyder99/sigs/name.jpg

[Guest tallpilot]

I haven't been thru DTW since the new midfield terminal opened. I hope they did away with those darn electric carts that use to run thru the concourses. :-)Regards,Ed Weber a.k.a tallpilot