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Clouds are too small

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Guest jase439

From what I can surmise, the MS Weather Engine generates "broken" cloud formations only around the immediate vicinity of the aircraft (out to some fixed distance). My guess, is that this was done as a performance optimization because the clouds can be terribly taxing on frame rates.I have found that as you travel, MS keeps rendering "batches of clouds" (I will call them "cloud batches") in front of your aircraft's flight path (removing ones behind you). In the distance, however, the sky appears clear. Within each of these little "batches", the cloud coverage is accurate (see Figures 1 and 2). When you leave one batch of clouds, a new batch is rendered in front of you (Figure 3). However, if you look to the left or right and you happen to be in between "cloud batches", you will see wide open blue sky (Figure 4).With 5/8 and below...the coverage is sufficiently spotty enough that the performance impact diminishes. Overcast is almost as easy to render as clear skies - so the performance impact there is moot.I don't see this as much "a bug", but rather an artifact from a performance-based design decision that Microsoft made.

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Guest jase439

...and if you still remain unconvinced of my argument ;-)

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Hi,Thanks for the input...You are right about the cloud batch creation and problem with distant skies. When you're sitting on the ground this isn't noticible (unless thicknesses are low) but when aloft you can definitely see too much blue.A possible solution: When you're below the actual broken cloud layer, apply a thin overcast layer just above it for better visuals. When you're above it, apply the overcast below the broken layer. When your perception changes (above or below) the layer must change as well. This can be accomplished fairly smoothly with the new transition effects in ActiveSky wxRE. I'll give it a go and see how it works out. Any other comments or suggestions?-Damian Clark


Damian Clark
HiFi  Simulation Technologies

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>MS keeps rendering "batches >of clouds" (I will call them "cloud batches") in front of >your aircraft's flight path (removing ones behind you). In >the distance, however, the sky appears clear. I agree. This "localization" of weather certainly is one of the limitations that is waiting for some revolution in the coming years.Michael J.

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Hi, This is because of the Frame rate hit I think, Imagine clouds setting like autogen in the sky.If you have seen when there is too much clouds and are high the frame rate will decrease alot.Maybe Upcoming fast CPU will able to have Far clouds including at left and right.Scattered and few looks better but still not far clouds & right and left clouds.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFshttp://fsw.simflight.com/fsw.jpg


Kind Regards
Chris Willis

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Guest jase439

The problem you describe occurs only when you're above or below the clouds a sufficient distance to see the horizon and yet close enough to cause the sim to render "detailed clouds".Flight simulator renders clouds in 2 different fashions:A "Low Detail" model which is used when you have a fair degree of vertical separation between you and the cloud deck. This is just a planar texture that is plastered over the landscape (see attached picture - which is taken 10000' above the Broken 7/8 cloud layer).There is a "High Detail" version which actually renderes individual cloud objects with a pair of billboarded cloud textures. These are the textures that Chris has replaced in FS Sky World. The number of these high-resolution cloud objects are controlled by your cloud density settings. Once you kick into "High Detail" mode, you are limited to the number of objects you can see. In order to get the dense 7/8 coverage AND keep a handle on the number of high resolution cloud objects running amuck, MS chose to render only those objects within a certain radius of your aircraft.The second picture shows the problem you describe. Here, I am about 2000' above the cloud deck, and in "High Resolution" mode. As you can see, you can see wide open clear blue sky outside the "cloud batch".I hope this clears up the confusion on this subject matter. As you can see, this has nothing to with ActiveSky or FS Sky World or FSMeteo...it's simply a performance artifact. Until we all have 4 Gig boxes and 10 teratexel video adapters, we'll have to live with our circular "cloud batches" ;-)

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Guest jase439

>Until we all have 4 Gig boxes and 10 teratexel video >adapters, we'll have to live with our circular "cloud >batches" ;-) ...or raise 3 million dollars and ressurect Fly! ;-) Now THERE were some clouds!

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>>...or raise 3 million dollars and ressurect Fly! ;-) Now >THERE were some clouds! Yes, they looked very well but they were also generated right in front of you. No, I don't think TRI managed to overcome the same "localization" problem.Michael J.

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Hi, Fly clouds was limited in clouds layers,repetitive clouds and not far clouds. and not large cloud bmp selection thats have Msfs and FUIIII am sure in Fs2004 we will not talks about those problem anymore.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFshttp://fsw.simflight.com/fsw.jpg


Kind Regards
Chris Willis

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>Flight simulator renders clouds in 2 different fashions: >>I hope this clears up the confusion on this subject matter. >As you can see, this has nothing to with ActiveSky or FS Sky >World or FSMeteo...it's simply a performance artifact. >Until we all have 4 Gig boxes and 10 teratexel video >adapters, we'll have to live with our circular "cloud >batches" ;-) Or perhaps not! I am familiar with the horizontal and vertical rendering methods FS uses. There are two different issues here that we are talking about - 1 being very low densities of clouds being rendered when the thicknesses are too low or high (horizontal/high-detail mode). The other with the low radius of cloud circles drawn when clouds are of broken coverage (also horizontal mode).Something can be done to improve both. I think intelligent generation of cloud thicknesses compared to METAR data will help with the first, and assistive cloud layers (i.e. overcast or 4/8 under/above the broken layer depending on user pref) will take care of the second (not entirely, but it will be better).The idea being that even though FS2002 has a few limitations here, ActiveSky and/or FSWSE can help make the experience more realistic in a given circumstance (they already do, and they get better all the time!).Transition smoothing techniques, fog condition detection and cloud layer generation, density-enhancing logic and assistive cloud layers are coming!This discussion is great... Thanks "Jase439" and Chris... keep it coming and feel free to e-mail me at dzc66@cox.net.Take care,-Damian Clark


Damian Clark
HiFi  Simulation Technologies

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Hi DamienFascinating thread! I'm afraid I don't understand the technical limitations behind the limitations in available cloud layers - I'll leave this one to the experts!Is the plan for Activesky to be able to detect if FSW clouds are installed, and then use some algorithm to (a) determine which is the most appropriate and (:( update the cloud set in use "on the fly"? (I guess at one level it's predictable - eg a "thunderstorm" set could be selected based on METAR, but at another level the "best" set is subjective based on users preference).If so, this would be a really great colabboration between two great products!Andy

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