Attitudes towards payware developers - what do you thin

[spotlope 0]

I don't argue that there are some payware developers who have a bit of an attitude problem. Apparently, having a bad attitude is somewhat critical to being involved in this hobby in the first place! At least that's the impression I sometimes get from trawling the forums. Here's the flip side:Some simmers seem to believe that commercial add-on customers are somehow immune from all the normal conventions relating to interpersonal communications.In the minds of certain people, it appears that it's perfectly OK for customers of commercial products to be rude to the developers of those products, and to publicly flog them for the slightest infraction. Apparently, once you charge for a product, you give up all rights to any respect whatsoever, regardless of your past track record of service to the community. Witness the wrath unleashed on Lago for their recent Twotter debacle, even though they've had a banner year of releasing a record number of magnificent add-ons and are consistently responsive to their customer base. Look at Damian Clark, who has been the object of some scorn for deciding to release a payware version of his popular ActiveSky weather module, even though the guy put in a tremendous amount of his own time building five freeware versions which he donated to the community.It cuts both ways, people. Perhaps if some people were a trifle less shrill in their condemnation of any developer who dares to release a program with flaws (even if it's patched later), those developers might relax a little and not be so defensive. After all, it's a hobby people! Do yourselves a favor and stop getting so worked up over everything.

[Guest]

I have been trying so hard to keep my patience, but I have just HAD IT! I am so fed up and it's NOT with CaptainSim. I usually try not to behave this way but let me give you individuals a piece of my mind...All of you who don't want CaptainSim's products - deserve not to have CaptainSim's products. The stuff that they are producing (yes, along with PSS, Pilot's, FSD, Flight1, and Lago - which are the only addons I have from as of yet) is of some of the highest quality I have seen. I can't tell you how much fun I have had flying the MIG-21, and it handlin UNLIKE any other Freebee out there. I really "feel" like I'm flying a old military jet (no, don't ask the question of whether or not I have ever flown a MIG. I haven't - have you?). The panel, vc and external model are also TOP quality. The 727, after seeing the first screenshots, looks to be the MOST IMPRESSIVE VC TO DATE, PERIOD!). Can any of you possibly imagine what must go into the deveolpment of such an aircraft? Can any of you imagine the fun and pleasure WE CUSTOMER'S are going to get out of flying this wonderful aircraft when it's completed?I have seen so much complaining given to a small team of developer's who are tired and working very hard for us. I want the plane too, and I am one of the user's who can't even get the activation code to work yet. But guess what - I have enough foresight to see that this plane is going to give me an enormous amount of pleasure. Happiness is so priceless to me! I'm going to die one day and I hope I filled my life with as much happiness as possible. It's developers like CaptainSim who have had the courage to try and create an addon that goes so far above and beyond the norm. Yes, they missed a deadline and have had numerous problems in their copyguard coding. Yes, I can't fly my 727 dev version yet, but I know I will be, and when I am, I will have forgotten all of this nonsense and complaining.I truly hope there are enough of you out there who can see what CaptainSim are doing, and not be blinded by this MOB-Mentality and complete lack of consideration for a small group of developer's that have gotten no sleep and had to put of with so much complaining it makes me sick.I am truly sorry for this post. I try very hard to keep my cool but I am so fed up with all of you who just want to complain as much as possible. Look what we are getting! I know I'm happy CaptainSim exists and develops the wonderful addons they do. Then "I" get to fly them and that makes me happy. Being happy has a very, very high value to me.Jim

[Guest DaveKDEN]

> it appears that it's perfectly OK for customers of commercial products to be rude to the developers of those products, and to publicly flog them for the slightest infraction.On the flip side, it also appears to be perfectly OK (in their mind) for some individuals representing commercial developers to be completely rude to their customer base and fly off the handle at the slightest opinion or comment.Dave

[Guest]

Now Now Damien :) I NEVER said it was the customers Fault.... What I meant was that poor customer relations can sometimes be percieved when, for example..... a customer ( Who is obviously right by definition :) ) has the opinion that a developer is not being helpful (when the customer is perhaps asking the impossible) :)silly example I know but the point is simply this.. Instead of making a poor situation worse, a developer COULD (SHOULD) do EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to make that customer happy, even if it means refunding the money and admitting defeat .. Am I wrong ?

[spotlope 0]

Yes, Dave, that opinion was the basis for this thread. I don't argue that some developers have been less than professional. I just wish that their customers would take the high ground and stop this incessant attack on them. I think that if we all simmered down a little, they would too. That doesn't seem like a lot to ask.

[Guest]

I think part of the problem is that "Support" forums can actually create more problems than they solve. Whilst it is true that support forums can even be in effect free promotion for a developer, we have so far decided against having a forum.The reason: We make all efforts to address every query in person via e-mail, and so far, with very few exceptions, it works. The time taken on keeping a forum going is in our view taking valuable time away from actually personally serving our customers. In any case, our customers appreciate that personal service, and we will stick doggedly with a customer whatever the problem, until it is resolved.We are a small team and I think that helps us to keep focus on the job in hand and not get sidetracked. One thing we would NEVER consider is taking advance orders for anything. One of us could be run over by a bus and I would not want to risk attracting orders before we were certain our product worked, was finished, and viable.Having said that I sympathise with Captain Sim, whose products are great and they must have had enormous pressure to agree to advanced orders. It is very risky to announce a release before it is ready, and we won't release or announce anything until we are positive we can support our announcement.Best Regards,Rob Youngwww.realairsimulations.com

[Guest]

Repeating what I said in a similar thread:All I want is value for my dollar. If you make a great chair at a good price, I'll buy it and sit in it.I don't care how you do it or if you are a kook in your spare time.

[Guest SoarPics]

I believe some here are losing track of Damien's original slant. The question regards customer service... or lack thereof.If a developer knows they will be late meeting a previously announced release date, then they need to make the community aware of this. Failing to do so is POOR CUSTOMER RELATIONS.As a business owner, I know all too well what it's like to deal with whining and complaining customers. But that comes with the territory. Those types of customers are present in all areas of business. A business owner who fails to deal with such customers with dignity and respect is simply exhibiting POOR CUSTOMER RELATIONS. (My solution for dealing with this type of customer is to do everything I can to make them happy... without giving away the store... and then hope they go to my competition!!! Better them than me.)In this hobby there seems to be a lack of acceptable customer relations amongst many of the commercial developers. Simply put, there are a number of prima donnas. The strong exception is RealAir... as noted by others in this thread and elsewhere. Other commercial developers would do well to follow RealAir's example. The high level of quality in their products AND their strong customer relations doctrine will quickly have simmers running to them with money in hand. Money that won't be offered to the competition with outstanding quality but poor customer relations. It's a simple fact of life in the business world... customers should not have to put up with being treated badly.And that dignity issue works both ways... it does no good to whine and complain when a developer misses a release date. As Clayton said, give 'em a break! Allow them some time to release a good product to you. If they fail to communicate the delay to you, then let your money do the talking for you... take it elsewhere. That's a message any developer will understand... when their bills come due and there isn't enough revenue to pay them!!!With regard to Captain Sim's recent announcement about banning those customers who ask for a refund... it's always interesting to see someone shoot themselves in the foot! A perfect example of POOR CUSTOMER RELATIONS. I predict Captain Sim will in the future have plenty of free time on their hands.

[Guest DaveKDEN]

>I just wish that their customers would take the high ground and stop this incessant attack on them.Very much agreed! I've seen equally abusive customers with unreasonable expectatins/unwarrented criticisms. As is many times the case, there's two sides to every story. The bottom line however is that customers don't deserve to be treated like chaff with the expectation that there's always another customer around the corner. Many a business has gone by the wayside because of that. Dave

[Guest Josve]

I was for a while thinking of buying the 727.....but now NOT!!!With a policy calling people who want a refund BETRAYERS really doesn't suit me at all.Refunding when you're not satisfied with a product is a normal prosedure in the common world.And also saying if you wan't a refund you'll never are allowed to buy a product from us ANY MORE is waaay out of line.If this is the way Captain Sim are going to treat their Cusomers,they are digging their own grave!!Just my two cents......Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/zone.jpg ][/div

[Guest]

The moral of the story, it seems goes something like this: dont' say or do anything that you're not a 100% sure you can handle. That's pretty much what Rob said, and what RealAir has been doing so far. And it seems to work.

[Guest]

I just purchased the RealAir SF260 this week.The quality of the product is awesome. No doubt, the new Cap'Simproduct will be of high quality too.However, the CUSTOMER SUPPORT and expectations set by RealAir istruly awesome! They are a small group, but I sent a few Emails toRob Young and he replied in an hour! This was BEFORE I even purchased!The style, professionalism, customer support, and of course exceptional product quality will make me a RealAir repeat customer!JerryGP.S. This does not imply that RealAir is the ONLY great standard. I'm sure that several payware developers provide similar levels of satisfaction.P.P.S If a company's (i.e. Cap'Sim) policy is that they won't sell you any future products if you ask for a refund - I WILL NOT BUY FROM THAT COMPANY - period. More $$$ for the competition.

[Guest Josve]

As far as I know you guy's at RAS you will always treat your customers in a very polite way! And still be able to produce addons of the higest qualty!Johnny"I'LL BE BACK"[div align=center]http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/josve/zone.jpg ][/div

[Guest Skedflyer]

Damian, I know your not trying single out The Capt. :) It is just the best example at the time.I know why you brought this topic up at this time, and for good reason!Just I think companies have to develop a different strategy when I come to the FS market. Few companies have developed this; PSS have been one that comes to mind. Here they posting there feelings when others just stay quite. Remember this? http://www.apollosoftware.com and how they public ridiculed PSS

[yellow5 0]

Lets not forget....This is not their day job! I would venture to guess that the creators of these addons do not do this for a living. I would imagine that it is a group of people that have the same passion for flight simming as we do. I have a lot of respect for those that have the time and talent to create wonderful addons. Rule of thumb...never pre order, always research the product via forums and personal websites, and expect nothing.... Once you buy it, give it a chance, don't judge it by its cover. I took a chance on the FSD Commander 115. The screen shots where not that great of quality, but I researched it on forums and such, and it got a lot of good reviews. I bought it and turns out, I enjoy it. It would be nice if the public could just sit back and enjoy all the freeware out there, and let the payware designers do their job. When they release something after taking their time with it, then we can all go and enjoy their products....In a perfect world