Autorotations

[Bell417 0]

Hello,I have been flying helis in FS for a couple of years and had dabbled around with autorotations but only recently started doing them seriously. Before I had only been able to autorotate the Bell 206 JetRanger but on Friday night I started trying to autorotate the R-22. It didn't go so well, but by lunchtime on Saturday I had made my first autorotation that both I AND the R-22 could walk/fly away from.;-) Since then I safely made 14 more in the R-22 and 1 more in the 206 (that's because I only tried once). Let me just say I think if you are trying to learn how to autorotate in FS, you should learn to autorotate in the JetRanger first and once you have that masterd you are ready to move up to the R-22. The reason I say this is because when you turn off the R-22's engine it flies like a rock (and sometimes worse). The reason for that is because the R-22's main blades are very light so they have minimal inertia meaning that they slow down very fast. When you are autorotating the R-22, don't try to touch down with 0 airspeed. You will probably crash (any idea how I found that out?):-roll Try and do running landings and then once you can do that, try and do touchdowns at 0 kts. One last thing, I thought it would be fun to see approximately how many autorotations folks had made.

[blave 0]

You didn't mention whether you're flying FS9 or FS-X, but I presume it's FS-X because in FS9 (at least for me) its R22 was not survivable once the throttle was rolled off for initiation of an entry into autorotation.At any rate, even in FS-X the autos are not realistic and in the 206 I find that I can auto "fo days" and still make a successful auto landing with plenty of MR inertia left.Now, I have never auto'd a real 206, but I have done a few in the R22 (and many in the S300C/CB) and while it's fun to try to auto in FS, there are quite a few things that are missing from the simlated experience, and in the 206 I suspect that the simulated amount of MR inertia is more than is available in the real aircraft.I think that all of this relates to (at least from what I've read) the "fact" that the flight model in FS is really an airplane one, and the helicopter variation can never truly emulate a rotorcraft for that reason. Given that, it's amazing that FS can emulate such non-airplane maneuvers such as the autorotation to the degree that it can, and I also want to acknowledge that FS-X has made some minor improvements towards more realism in he helicopter flight experience.If any MS folks are reading this and I mis-spoke about any of this, I welcome corrections to my understandings.Dave Blevins---

[Bell417 0]

I am using FSX. I couldn't agree with you more about the 206 having to much MR inertia, however, to me the R-22 feels very realistic as far as amount of MR ineria during an autorotation. I have never autorotated an R-22 before but from what I've read about it and heard about it (from an instructor in the type) I'm pretty sure that in FSX at least, it's autorotation characteristics are fairly realistic. As far as it being "un-autorotatable" in FS2004, I remember having the same problems you have. I couldn't even do it in FSX (the R-22 that is,) until I found out that the max speed during an autorotation for the R-22 is 65 kts. I find that if I keep my rotors from losing to much RPM and the airspeed from going over 70 kts I can usually succesfully autorotate the R-22. You probably already know this but the other key is to start out from at least 500'AGL and to start your auto from a place you know you can make it. It sounds dumb but, if you read up on the R-22 in the learning center it might help you (I know it helped me!) I hope this helps you.

[blave 0]

You make an interesting point - I have spent almost all of my FS time in the 206 and probably tried to auto the R22 in FS-X too fast. I'll give your 60-ish knot speed thing a try and see what happens. (Note that you can auto a real R22 faster than 65 knots; it's just that your sink rate is not as good (i.e. higher) as it is around 65.)BTW I presume you already know about Dodosim, but just in case: http://www.dodosim.comI have their entry-level product (RealStart) and it works as advertised. I plan to get the Advanced version at some point, once they have FS-X support (currently it's apparently only FS2004).BTW here is the toy for FS that I really lust for, that has full DodoSim support: http://www.simcontrol.co.uk/new%20web%20ph...revew%20072.jpghttp://www.simcontrol.co.uk/new%20web%20ph...revew%20073.jpgI don't know how much that setup costs, but I'm sure it's bloody expensive 8^) .happy auto'ing,Dave.

[Bell417 0]

That's a nice looking collective, who makes it? "I'm sure it's bloody expensive 8^" I'll bet you're right.

[Guest jcomm]

Actually the procedure used in MSFS is a little bit far from reality, although we can tweak the various helo flightmodels in oder to get at least an hint of how it should be performed.One of the aspects that is lacking in MSFS's helo Flight Dynamics is rotor load. Theoretically you should even rotate oposite rotor rotation to help loading the main rotor blades, while at the same time building enough forward speed. 50-60 KIAS is ok for the Schweizer.Collective should be lowered but during your ride down you have to add collective here and then. Regrettably not for the same reason you do it in RL (in order to avoid over RRPM...). In MSFS this has to be done to overcome other aspects of the physics model. When approaching the landing area, at about 50' you should flare and keep "playing" with your collective (up/down as required), and just before you touch you should reduce your attitude.FSX also has a problem with Gyroscopic effects, and the AIRCRAFT.CFG parameters that apparently could cope with it are not working properly (?). In my setup I have lowered the Gyro effects slider in the aircraft realism menu to 1/4 !I heve here the modifications I did to my r-22 in fsx. There are two flavours, and one can try variations from both... Since it's illegal to post airfiles here (with copyright) I will leave just a few lines taken from my mods...=====** Use at your own risk! Backup the original sim.cfg 1st!!! (* In the Piston Engine Section *)idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar= 1.1idle_rpm_friction_scalar= 0.7(* In the helicopter section *)torque_scalar = 8.0pedal_control_scalar =1.5collective_on_rotor_torque_scalar = 0.8 // alternatively 0.9(* in the fuselage_aerodynamics section *)drag_force_cf = 1.15side_drag_force_cf = 2.5pitch_damp_cf = -2.0roll_damp_cf = -2.0yaw_damp_cf = -0.1yaw_stability_cf = 0.15(* MainRotor *)Weight_to_moi_factor = 0.80 // alternatively 0.78 and...inflow_vel_reference = 33.0 // here use 36.0================================ The End ==========================There is a movie of an auto performed in the tweaked FSX R-22. the techniques used (to tweak) are similar to those applied on the Schweizer, so you can have an hint of how it goes....http://www.simtube.com/view_video.php?view...507cacd8e2f2aefThere is also another movie of me playing with the tweaked r-22 FM here:http://www.simtube.com/view_video.php?view...type=&category=Those were my first two "productions" :-) with FRAPS.... Poor I know...

[Bell417 0]

Thanks for thse tweaks, I can't wait to try them. I watched the videos and coud really tell what a difference those tweaks made because your R-22 wasn't plummeting like mine does.

[Guest jcomm]

Ok,I look forward for your comments...Don't forget to lower the Gyro Effects Slider to 1/4th (to de left), on the Aircraft Realism Menu!!!

[Bell417 0]

I tried your suggested adjustments and was able to autorotate about 2-3 times farther! I adjusted the "...torque=8.0" to 3.0 because the tail rotor was causing me to spin almost out of control even with the Gyro set at 1/4 as suggested. Thank you.