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Relative Motion

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Guest Stamatis

"There are many real-life jet pilots (specially on the 767PIC forum) and while examining the fidelity of this simulation from different angles I never heard them complain about skewed sense of motion. "With all the respect to these pilots, I will not agree simply because they say so, I have a pair of eyes myself :-)I am lucky enough to be in the cockpit jump seat during every single flight I have taken this year, and after I noticed this, I paid extra attention to "visualize" motion looking out of the windshield while at less than 2000 feet during approaches, and then comparing this with my own sim, virtually hours later. I still maintain there is something funny with the speed perception at low altitudes/low airspeeds.Now, just the same as I do not have to be convinced by the 767PIC pilots, same gfoes for everyone else of course, nobody needs to agree with me just because I say so :-)After all, I just said I was impressed with the accuracy of the FS2K2 numbers, so I can't explain what is causing this to me. It may be just me, but then how come so many others mention it too?"If this is not enough then perhaps people should start looking at secondary factors like fidelity of ground textures, lack of peripheral vision or focusing eyes in the wrong place (this last one I correct using the Fresnel lens with great results)."Hmmm... Maybe the relative size of nearby objects, like trees houses, etc? If these are wrong, then surely the perception of speed passing them by will be also wrong?Anyway, it is no longer important for me, I guess I have gotten used to it. It is only while jumpseating in the cockpit that I sometimes get reminded of this.Stamatis

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Guest Stamatis

Oh, and another thing I forgot to ask:If one zooms out to 0.70, then surely speed perception will be further reduced, not increased, since you are moving the ground and all the objects on it further away from you, no?Stamatis

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>further away from you, no? >No, the wider the zoom the faster the speed and likewise the longer the zoom the slower the speed. If you have a zoom equipped camera you can see it for yourself (or use FS2002 .. ;-) ) Michael J.


Michael J.

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Guest Stamatis

Hi again Michael,".... because zoom compresses distances in front of you"when you zoom in it sure does, not when you zoom OUT, which a factor of 0.71 does!If you advised using a Zoom of >1, then I'd agree that it compresses distances in front of me, but when I use a wide-angle setting of 0.70, surely it has the opposite effect?Stamatis

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>If you advised using a Zoom of >1, then I'd agree that it >compresses distances in front of me,More zoom IN = More compressed distances = stronger perception of slower speed.If neither experiment nor math can convince you - not sure what to add to this subject. You just have to work it out on your own.Take care.Michael J.


Michael J.

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Guest Stamatis

No problem Michael, thanks for your ideas anyway!Stamatis

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Thanks for all the great, thoughtful, ideas. For whatever it's worth, there is a video of heavy jet approach I downloaded from AVSIM called kmdwmovie.zip. See if the perception from the cockpit is what you typically see in a sim. Granted, don't know the approach speed, but it's going to be somewhere around what most heavies would use. My opinion is that the approach over the numbers seems much faster than we would see in the sim -- maybe not for you. Greg.

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>My opinion is that the approach over the numbers seems much >faster than we would see in the sim -- maybe not for you. Greg,You have fallen into your own trap - this movie is from within the FS2002 sim (not the real world). I mean - just look at the scenery. So .. is 'his' FS2002 faster than yours ? :-lol :-hahMichael J.[link:jdtllc.com]http://jdtllc.com/images/RCsupporter.jpg


Michael J.

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Michael -- couple of points. First, I wasn't aware I was setting a trap -- the question I raised was sincere and legitimate, not baiting anyone or any idea. I guess it's all in the perceiver (no pun). I have plenty of time in both military and GA aircraft, and for me the perception of motion is slow in the sims, period.I don't give a rip if the math works or not -- Wasn't criticizing the sim, and others seemed to agree. Second, the problem may very well be PC's -- my system is older, and the video(on my screen)looked pretty real, and I thought illustrated a point. Guess I really got burned there, huh? Score one for you. Finally, your accusatory attitude is something I got real tired of in these forums well over a year ago when I stopped following. Your "laughing face" is typical of what was a pervasive juvenile mentality. Looks like nothing has changed, and I havn't missed anything.

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Sorry G, I thought you had sense of humor. There was no malice on my part, I really genuine believed you would laugh at your own post once you realized what you had stated.I am outta here :-abduct :-zhelpMichael J.


Michael J.

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I believe FS2002 was really made for use with at least two mointors. If you can, try this: Set up two monitors with one below only displaying panel and one above only displaying full screen outside 3D view zoomed out to .5. Fly at treetop in one of the fighter jets. Believe me when I say you will not be able to wipe the grin from your face. 100% true prespective low, high, fast, slow and everywhere in between.Warning: do not do this if you are unable to keep the setup longterm as you will no longer be satisfied with one monitor flying.

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