When to use change of level and cruise climb?

[Guest]

I think the level change (known as step climb too) is the most popular way to climb during cruise. But when is the cruise climb used and what for? What is the difference between them? Is there a special phraseology for cruise climb?Examples for cruise climb:C/48N050W/M082F290F350C/48N050W/M082F290PLUSC/52N050W/M220F580F620Examples for normal level change:HO/N0284A045LAM/N0305F180LOHRE/N0451F350NOTAR/K0853S10604602N07805W/N0500F35046N078W/M082F330

[Guest]

well,remember as time passes during the flight,the more fuel is being burnt,so the lighter the aircraft becomes. When it has a certain gross weight,it is light enough do to a step climbbut why does it a step climb?well,the higher you get,the lower the air pressure =>less air molecules=> less drag=> a higher speed (TAS,Mach) for the same power setting or the same speed for a lower power setting=>less fuel is burnt,this is what it is all about

[Guest]

I didn't ask it. I asked when to use them? Usually I make my fuel calculations and select the flight level depending on heading, route restrictions and optimum flight level. If I need a step to the higher flight level, I use "change of level" -method, like AAL/N0454F360. This same method can be used very optimistically for long flights too. Why cruise climb is then used?

[Guest]

phraseology :"Gander Radio, Lufthansa 0103 Heavy, Requests Clearance". "Lufthansa 0103 Heavy, Gander Radio, go ahead with your Request". "Gander Radio, Lufthansa 0103 Heavy, Requests FL 370" "Lufthansa 0103 Heavy, cleared to FL 370, Report Reaching" "Gander Radio, Lufthansa 0103 Heavy, out of FL 330 for FL 370" Reaching FL 370 :"Gander Radio, Lufthansa 0103 Heavy, level at FL 370" "Lufthansa 0103 Heavy, Gander copies" I'm no expert but cruise climb and step climb arn't the same ?climb to higher level because its possible and reduces fuel burn ??I would like to know myselfbbPedro

[Guest CYOW_pilot]

Matti,Level change refers to just that, the point at which the aircraft plans to climb to the next higher appropriate FL, using normal climb rates. A cruise climb would be a much slower process, basically climbing very slowly or in 100 ft increments to maintain optimum altitude as the fuel burns off. I have never used this on a flight plan and although it would be the most efficient method I doubt that the realities of airspace and traffic would allow for such a block of airspace to utilized for too long a period. Good in theory but impractical in practice.Kevin in CYOW

[Guest]

>Matti, >>Level change refers to just that, the point at which the >aircraft plans to climb to the next higher appropriate FL, >using normal climb rates. >> A cruise climb would be a much slower process, basically >climbing very slowly or in 100 ft increments to maintain >optimum altitude as the fuel burns off. I have never used >this on a flight plan and although it would be the most >efficient method I doubt that the realities of airspace and >traffic would allow for such a block of airspace to utilized >for too long a period. Good in theory but impractical in >practice. >>Kevin in CYOW Thank you, I finally got the answer. So my thoughts about cruise climb were correct. One more question, is cruise climb commonly used in North Atlantic airspace? In Europe, cruise climbs are a little bit unpossible, as you said. Better use "the steps" here.. :)

[Guest]

Matti,in my knowledge,there is no such a thing as as "cruise climb" where you climb at 100 ft incrementseven over the North Atlantic, pilots will step climb the aircraft to a higher FL to optimize fuel burnthey will have to request the level first to ATC

[Guest CYOW_pilot]

Matti,I don't think you would ever see a cruise climb on the NAT routes, they are simply too busy. In my experience flying oceanic, sometimes it is hard enough just to get a normal step climb!The only case I know of someone doing a cruise climb over the N. Atlantic was with C-130s from Canada to Europe. They can get away with it because there are not many other aicraft flying in the FL150 -FL250 range (except maybe other C-130s and P-3s).Kevin in CYOW

[Guest]

you won't see a so called "cruise climb" anywhere for normal airliners IMHO,you'll only find step climbs,which are very frequently used over the North Atlantic.Another factor:there's no adar covergae over the biggest part of the NA,so evrything is done by Shanwick and Gander by position reports.

[Guest AndrewW]

Cruise Climb is used on Concorde. The FP below is a snippet from the BA route EGLL/KJFK...EGLL N0530F260 CPT UG1 MALBY C/ACCEL PT/M200FL260F450 This reads max alt' FL450 at this time, as it is required that you cross SM15West above FL450. The next stage of the plan would contain something like 'WPT/M200F450F600'.The rate of climb starts at around 2-3000fpm and will reduce to around 50fpm when flying in 'MAX CRUISE' mode. Andrewhttp://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3dda22a0053d08bf.jpg