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APPEAL --- PLEASE Help these people SEE SENSE !!!!!!

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ah, so it is engine time and not airframe time?How many hours are there left on the airframe?And how much would it cost to put in 4 new engines every 5 years (or less).Remember that those 60 hours a year are not just the displays. They're also training, positioning, etc. flights which will probably take up enough time that the actual displays will be limited to under 10 hours a year (thus under 10 performances, given that the average show lasts 2 days).And that's if the aircraft remains in the UK. Performances outside the UK would take longer flying thus more flight hours thus shortening the lifespan of the project.And I doubt there would be many airshows willing to pay at least cost to get the aircraft over there.Say 2 hours transit either way, 1 hour display time. That's 5 hours on the engines which costs what, 10000 pounds?Add lodging for the crew, fuel, etc. and you'reprobably talking about 15000-20000 pounds to have the aircraft over for a 2 day event.Some large shows will be able to recoup that expense through increased ticket sales (thinking of RIAT, Farnborough, maybe some other large shows) but most (and especially the smaller local shows which often are still free) cannot pay that amount of money so not only the restauration but also the operation of the aircraft will have to be heavily subsidised or it will be a hangarqueen simply because noone can afford to have it come to them.Remember that the 2.5 million is only for initial restauration and certification. Maintenance is needed, fuel, crew training and certification, etc. etc.. I doubt sales of memorabilia alone will be enough to cover all that, even without the (doubtfull, do they know there to be a source of possible engines they could aqcuire for the long term?) requirement to purchase new engines every few years.Mind that I'm all in favour of keeping old aircraft flying if possible. Seeing them in a museum is always a somewhat sad thing, like seeing a stuffed bird.But we have to be practical and sometimes it is just not possible (financially and/or technically) to keep the aircraft flying and I think that as aircraft get more complex and the technology to keep them in the air more expensive to aqcuire and maintain properly that it will happen ever more often that it is impossible to maintain an aircraft in airworthy condition once it is no longer in operational use by its last commercial (or in this case military) operator.

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Guest Toni Rauch

GrahamAppropriate message in support duly sent.I think it's such a shame that those bureaucrats have lost their sense of history - why do they have the word 'heritage' in their name? If the Vulcan isn't part of our flying heritage, what is...?Toni.

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Whenever I go to RNAS Yeovilton, I always find it so sad that Concorde 002 is destined to spend the rest of its days in a hangar. Of course it's better than being scrapped, but surely it should be flying?

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Guest Tom EverittAFG

I read this press release with growing anger, dismay and frustration. These people have the nerve to say that the Vulcan would not represent good vaule for money, and then dish out

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Guest

Oh here we go ... blame everything on Asylum seekers :-roll. Every now and again, a scapegoat appears which allows people to blame a group of people :(. The media dish out hate-enciting rubbish about these people, and the mindless amongst you will swallow it, hook, line and sinker :-lol

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Guest

Yeah .. Like the Millenium Dome .. right ???Come On .... Any Aviation enthusiasts here ?

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Guest

We are all aviation enthousiasts, but like I said earlier some projects are just unrealistic.The group restoring the aircraft has done a good job preserving it as it is, but if they can't come up with a businessplan to use the aircraft (and other resources they have or may aqcuire over time) in a fashion that is at least revenue neutral they will never survive beyond the initial restoration phase without massive subsidising.As I seriously doubt that that will happen, they would be better off preparing the aircraft for static display (possibly with full interior fittings to be shown to interested parties) and sell it to a museum (or give it in trust).If they don't they may well have to sell it for scrap in a few years to pay off their debts no matter whether they get the 2.5 million in subsidies now.Sad but true.Mind that I'd love to see the Vulcan fly again (and I'm not even a Brit).But given the option of having her in a museum now on public display or having her fly for a year or so and then be cut up for scrap because the owners can't afford to pay to keep her operational, I choose the museum (however much I think aircraft should fly, a museum is better than the melting pot at the steelmill).

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Guest

Jeroen,In the UK, Airshows are extremely popular and I believe are classed as the most popular spectator event in the UK! People are more than willing to spend

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With respect though I think you missed the point slightly?Although the points you raise I feel are quite valid I Failed to mention the obvious :)She WILL of course be retired to static display in a Museum on completion of her "tour of duty" and also there are quite a few Vulcans in various states of repair already on display in the UK AND in the USA.My point (Sorry , the point of the VTTS ) :) Is that she is CAPABLE of flight upon completion of the rebuild, All the ground work and engineering have been done and these (somewhat meagre) Funds are simply to enable the rebuild and certification to go ahead. IF the certification cannot be done then all the work, Time and Money ALREADY Spent ( Half a Million PLUS ) will simply be wasted ... There is also the Catch 22 situation whereby .... IF Funds cannot be raised for the above programme then the Aircraft will be sold to a buyer (Probably In the USA) BUT the only real way to traansport the aircraft to the States would be to Fly her over.... Requiring the rebuild and certification process to be completed.... DING .... and around we go again :)TO ALL READERS .. I apologise for my overbearing stance on this affair. I am Not even directly connected with VTTS but I feel VERY Strongly for this Aircraft. I certainly dont want to Bore people with it :)I just wish my Lottery Numbers would come up .. I'd give em the 2.5 Million myself !

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>I just wish my Lottery Numbers would come up .. I'd give em the 2.5 Million myself !Thought of that one already , Graham - see my earlier post! LOLKeep hammering away - your doing a grand job and rest assured we who really do understand where you are coming from are right behind you! This project is too important to be allowed to die. Life is about living and being prepared to take risks and making generous gestures when the situation demands. If money was only ever spent on safe projects man would never have got to the moon and certainly would not be planning to go to Mars in the forseeable future.Who can say what the spinoffs would be in seeing this magnificent statement of British engineering in the air once again. The sheer pleasure given to millions alone far outweigh any monitory considerations. Aircraft are meant to be flown and not left as empty hulks to moulder forgotten in a museum. Something deep within us yearns to prevent this fate from happening to XH558 for as long as possible. Somehow, against all the odds, my gut tells me that she WILL fly again! Mike :-wave


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Guest

Vulcan:Hmmm, me thinks that one of the reasons you are able to sit and write this post from the UK (assuming you are in the UK) and not from New Berlin is because of the Spitfire!!!As I remember it, we Btits owe the fact that it is not necessary to goose-step or proclaim our allegance to Der Furher. If not for the Spitfire, this post would look something like this...Ich denke, da� einer der Gr�nde Sie in der LageSIND zu sitzen und diesen Pfosten von Gro�britannien zu schreiben (Sie annehmend seien Sie in Gro�britannien) und nicht von neuem Berlin ist wegen des Spitfire!!! Wie ich an ihn mich erinnere, verdanken wir Btits die Tatsache, da� es nicht notwendiger Gans-Schritt ist oder proclaim unser allegance zu Der Furher!!!Makes you wonder huh??? :-lolRegards,Mike T.

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Guest Tom EverittAFG

"For instance, I doubt that there will ever come a day that a Spitfire, P-51 Mustang, B-17 or a B-52 is not airworthy because there will always be someone who can point to them and say "I am here because of that aircraft". Not so with the venerable Vulcan"Erm, the people of Port Stanley might just disagree with you on that one?TomAFG.

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Guest

WHAT ????3. If memory serves correctly, the Vulcan hasn't served in any conflict at all. Never came back with mortally wounded crews onboard. Never helped to turn the tide of any war thus saving the British Homeland. The Vulcan is not even historical in the fact of being the first British Jet Bomber (reference: The Avro Lincoln).RUBBISH !!! What About the Falklands ???The Longest Bombimg mission EVER UNDERTAKEN To that Date !4. No veterans exist that sit on the flight deck of the Vulcan and reminisce about how it always brought them home safely even after the most harrowing combat mission.Really ????Try looking up the story of Black Buck Mission 3.. And Squadron Leader Neil MacDougalLikewise it is doubtful that the Vulcan could generate 100,000 pounds over its 5-7 year restored flying life. ??Again I beg to Differ ... She would raise these funds PURELEY from the RIAT Display over that period if not a LOT moreSorry Mike .. I agree putting things in perspective is important, but I do think Facts help also ??:)

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