Northern NAT Tracks

[Guest suncanadian]

Hi, just had a question while I was flight planning.You have your typical NAT tracks taht run across the Atlantic, but are there tracks that extend far north near Greenland? Reply would be appreciated.

[Guest ifly]

Have you consulted this site yet?http://www.natroutes.glideslope.de/html/nats.php3

[Guest suncanadian]

thanks for the link, yes I have consulted it. I was just browsing through the forum and I found an Aeroflot FP from UUEE-KLAX. The path took it very north, 75N020E, etc etc.. The sight you provided does not have tracks up there?

[Guest Koen]

Hi,There actually is a Polar Track System (PTS), which has tracks that far north, but it's harly ever used... :)Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

[Guest quixeven]

Hi there,I suppose you are talking about "polar tracks" ;)For the official description of "how they work" and "how to use them" I suggest you read the relevant parts of the NAT MNPSA manual (that is, page 26 of the pdf file), available here:http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/MNPSA9/mnps9.pdfThese are fixed tracks, so I'll see if I can give you the waypoint details later today.Cheers,

[Guest Koen]

Sorry, actually it's called the Polar Track Structure (a manual I have here says Polar Track System, but that seems to be incorrect), as you can see on page 26 of the MNPSA ops. manual.Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

[Guest quixeven]

Alright, I've found the missing pic that shows how the PTS looks like:http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/MNPSA9/mnps9fg3.pdfAnd here is the waypoint detail:PTS1 (EGPX):MATIK 6612N N6920 N7440 THT SINVUPTS2 (EGPX):GONUT 6608N N7320 N7840 ROGSOPTS3 (ENSV):FLS EDURA SECON N7454 N8030 LTPTSP (ENTR):VIG ABADA ADOBI FORUM N7810 N8120 PELRIPTSQ (EGPX):LIRKI 6605N N7010 N7620 N8040 LTPTSR (EGPX):MATIK 6612N N7120 N7740 ROGSOPTSS (EGPX):RATSU 6820N 7440N THT SINVUJust a word of warning: as you probably know, 7440N is not the same as N7440. The first means N74

[Guest Koen]

Hi,A small correction there: N7440 means N74

[Guest quixeven]

Thanks Koen, especially for the coordinates correction: I was persuaded that it was N74

[Guest Koen]

Hi Nicola,The Icelandic AIP is the only one that's a bit clear about the PTS in my opinion. Here's a part of one of the pages: http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/flightplans/biaip35.jpg@ suncanadian: I know it's getting a bit complicated now :(, but I would like to add that all these routes are only available between FL310 and FL390.Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

[Guest suncanadian]

Hi Koen/quixeven,Thanks for the awesome information! I was asking around elsewhere and no one could give me an answer. Koen, you say these routes are hardly ever used - why is that?Is it not economical for long flights, such as KLAX-UUEE?- Sun

[Guest Koen]

Hi,The PTS is usually used for flights between western Europe and Alaska. Most of the flightplans via the PTS I've seen are Nippon Cargo plans between PANC and EHAM/EDDF, but other companies like Condor/Thomas Cook (charter flights from Germany) use them too. With "they are hardly ever used" I meant to say there are only a few (say 15) flights per week via the PTS. I've never seen a KLAX-UUEE flightplan filed via the PTS for example. The best reason for that I can think of, is that the flight's routing is more west-east then the tracks are. So a random route is more economic than the PTS. :)Cheers,http://home.planet.nl/~duijn181/cu2/koen.jpg

[Guest ben_eddt]

Hi,I just spoke to an Lufthansa 747 Co Pilot and he said that especially for the EDDF_KLAX routes they are mostly flying north polar tracks and quiteless NAT tracks. But only for these Europe / West Coast routes.Europe/East Coast routes are always NAT track routs (that

[Guest mc.kar]

>Hi,>>I just spoke to an Lufthansa 747 Co Pilot and he said that>especially for the EDDF_KLAX routes they are mostly flying>north polar tracks and quite>less NAT tracks. But only for these Europe / West Coast>routes.>Europe/East Coast routes are always NAT track routs (that

[Guest mottoth1]

I know quite well AFR's LFPG-KLAX routings (that must be quite similar to the EDDF-KLAX routings), and never saw one using the Polar Track System.LFPG-KLAX flights usually go as north as 60