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LAdamson

Private Pilot Checkride - Steep Turns are difficult

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Guest byoung

This is what makes MSFS 2002 still a game...I hope the Microsoft FS 2004 development team spends time on Flight Dynamics 101 along with improving the eye candy. The fact you can't fly most aircraft without using the Auto Pilot is really annoying! There is no standardization or certification for .AIR files. So developers often tweak these files around their own hardware.Even with FSD-International's planes and the SUPERB job they have done, there are dynamics that just are'right. I still can't trim the Cheyene 400 even with the Go Flight LGT module. There is way too much slop. They tell me it trims like a dream..So those people that are passing these flying exams without the use of an auto-pilot, my hats off to you....It could be that my CH Products Yoke and Pedals aren't calibrated correctly? But using the CH Device Manager is really confusing...Take care!Barry

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BarryI would tend to agree with your statement.The facts are that visually we have now moved to a high state of accuracy which isnt matched by flight dynamics.There are probably just a handful of people worldwide who are able to extract any degree of realism from the flight dynamics and this usually means a high degree of creative flight modelling to screen the flaws and gaping holes in the flight dynamic capability of MSFS2002.It also requires the brain of Einstein which usually doesnt equal the talents of Authors who have creative abilities.If we look at the shear amount of time in just creating a reasonable handling aircraft it is just too much to expect from anyone.Microsoft now need to look at the flight dynamics engine which is highly dated and they need to couple to this an interface which allows us non Einsteins to create reasonable handling aircraft to match their visual beauty.I would see as part of this interface an ability to make handling and feel adjustments to the airfile in flight by the means of sliders and then to be able to save the result as an airfile.Peter

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>Barry >>I would tend to agree with your statement. >Peter, I hope it isn't this one :)I hope the Microsoft FS 2004 development team spends time on Flight Dynamics 101 along with improving the eye candy. The fact you can't fly most aircraft without using the Auto Pilot is really annoying! I say "rubbish" to not being able to fly without auto-pilot! I seldom use auto-pilot, but do admit that trim for getting straight and level is the touchiest part of the flight dynamics. Of course, no GA aircraft that I know of fly's straight and level either, MS is just a bit harder.As to Microsoft going all out to provide flight dynamics that mimic the real bird............... I doubt it! I don't see it as being in their best financial interest. The real appeal would be to too few. And if they did, perhaps it would be under lock and key like IL-2. Or perhaps licensing fees for third party use? IMO---- we just may be stuck with creative talents such as those from Rob Young, Steve Small, and Ron Freiumuth. It may be masking flaws and coming up with work arounds, but it just doesn't bug me that much................... because the whole simulation thing is just that.................. a simulation with no real air moving over no real wings. It's all a form of visual trickery, and "feel" to our hardware, which in essence, could be called a "game" as Barry stated. But I still prefer "simulation" myself! :)And BTW--- as I've stated before; The RealAir SF260 still manages to beat the "total" flight dynamic envelope of FLY, FLYII, FUIII, X-Plane, and IL-2------------------ even if it is so eloquently "faked" for FS2002.L.Adamson

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Guest byoung

But Trim is Flight Dynamics 101... It is possible, and should appeal to EVERYONE who flies. Realism is one of Microsoft's marketing strategies, isn't it??On final approach about 10 miles out, can you trim the airplane so you just have to make MINOR adjustments, adjustments that don't careen you all over the SKY?I don't think so.. If you took a pole, I am almost certain it result be that most people fly with the Autopilot until about two - three miles to touch down.. And when you disenguage the Autopilot, then all of the bizillion alignment calculations that the AutoPilot does go away, and you stuck flying flight dynamics that aren't even close.Careening, Careening, Careening....Even simple things like taxiing, aren't correct.If you have ever flown the real thing, you would agree.. If you drove a car like that, you would be pulled over for drunk driving.My flight instructor in the real world, always drilled home the fact, once you have your airplane properly configured for landing, it should take very SMALL corrections to maintain the approach. One approach he did, he had his hands off the yoke until a mile or so before touchdown.. Unless you have wind gusts etc. or a few other factors... And they can get there... I am not saying it is off by a great margine, just off! And it does impact the flight experience, in my opinion.Barry

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LarryBut there arent many like the people you mentioned above who are either capable, have the skills or are prepared to put in hundreds of hours in creating flight models.This is the big gaping gap for the aircraft creator who makes a very nice looking aircraft in GMAX.It looks great but doesnt fly great and these poor people cant E mail Rob young to give them a great flight model.Microsoft built a creative tool with MSFS yet there is no tool for the builder to create a decent flight model and here lies the gaping hole which they need to fill in MSFS2004 to complete the job.The subject is so complex and there really are only enough people worldwide to count on ten fingers who are capable enough that this statement must surely show a shortfall in this creative tool.Peter

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>.. And when you >disenguage the Autopilot, then all of the bizillion >alignment calculations that the AutoPilot does go away, and >you stuck flying flight dynamics that aren't even close. >Careening, Careening, Careening.... Yo, Barry I tend to agree with you. I fly with the a/p on most journeys if only because to fly manually all the way would be hard work. BUT... you should still be able to do it with a little practice and that means practice on each and evey plane as they are all different, non?Yoy say when the a/p goes away you are stuck with flight dynamics that aren't even close, as if the a/p was somehow using DIFFERENT dynamics.Naturally when you shut off the a/p YOU have to start micromanaging the controls like the a/p was doing.I reckon, with 10 miles to work with, you should be able to stabilise the plane such that you only need small adjustments.When I first flew the stock Lear (FS2K) manually I thought it was absolutely impossible, but now I can handle it . Just takes a lot of practice that's all.PP

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>On final approach about 10 miles out, can you trim the >airplane so you just have to make MINOR adjustments, >adjustments that don't careen you all over the SKY? >>I don't think so.. If you took a pole, I am almost certain >it result be that most people fly with the Autopilot until >about two - three miles to touch down.. Seriously, I have little problem to fly smooth non-porpousing, non erratic flight paths to a landing without auto-pilot. If it's because I'm a real world pilot, and my computer hardware seems about right, then so be it! I've had a friend over, who tends to fly arratic landings, as well as takeoffs also..FWIW, I do use rudder pedals, and the trim is two knobs on my joystick.L.Adamson

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>Larry >>But there arent many like the people you mentioned above who >are either capable, have the skills or are prepared to put >in hundreds of hours in creating flight models. >I seriously doubt Microsoft has programmers capable of what the "above" guys have learned over the years! :) And I sure hope things don't "progress" as with CFS3. The modeling has actually gone backwards :-( I myself, just plain prefer flight models, modeled by these particular 3rd party designers..L.Adamson

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It's not (just because you're a realworld pilot.I'm not and I can keep decent altitude as well in most aircraft with little effort.Trimming works well, but we have to remember the limitations of PCs. The trim in a real aircraft is a continuous process, in FS it's discontinuous. That means that if the correct trimsetting is somewhere between 2 clicks on the trim, you're incapable of trimming correctly. As the correct trimsetting is not a constant even for a single aircraft (if it were, real aircraft wouldn't need trimwheels :-)) there is no way Microsoft or anyone else can anticipate this and program for it. As it is they did a quite decent job within the limitations of the hardware they programmed for...Next step up, full motion sim. I don't think many FS users can afford one of those...

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Guest byoung

Larry,I also have flown in real life about 250 hours PP SEL with a SE complex rating.Then it has to be a hardware re sensitivity issue...I have a AMD XP 2200 Processor w 768MB Ram, a GEFORCE 4 ti4200 128 MB, 60GB 7200 Hard Drive, and the Goflight LGT and P8 Modules, and USB CH Products Yoke and Pedals.. Running a 7 port USB hub for the Goflight and CH hardware.Not a Minimum System by any means..So what is the problem?I would like to hear any comments? I am not saying all my landings are crappy... But I can rarely get any aircraft trimmed, even with the GoFlight module and its granualarity ability to TRIM.Do I need to spend several hundred hours with hardware tweaking the sensitivities? Now I did see one nice thing about the PSS aircraft, they recommend to set all sensitivity settings to Default. And then they do their .AIR and other setting based on that.. See we need a standard!I do need to spend time on the phone with CH Products re the CH USB device manager... This may solve some of my issues as well.Take care!Barry

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Barry,As to my hardware, it's just the Saitek X-45 USB joystick and Thrustmaster analog rudder pedals. I've "mentally" developed a "feel" for the joystick trim, and keep it trimmed constantly. If I was to use a yoke, then I'm not sure what the result would be. Also have realism settings at high.L.Adamson

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