Just a few comments regarding the Flight1 DC9

[Guest]

I became concerned about the Iron Knuckles DC9 a week or so ago when the developers started labeling it as an "entertainment title". I had hoped that didn't mean "dumbed down" too much. Well, I think Jim did his product a disservice by giving it that moniker. While I'm sure they took certain liberties with the panel, it remains robust and has more than a few functions we haven't seen done well in other addons (the cabin pressure for one). I also love the fact that they offered so much flexibility with the 2D panels - especially important for those of us with multiple monitors. It is both entertaining and challenging to fly and I'm very happy with it.Still, there are just a few quirks that I think need to be pointed out. The virtual cockpit is a bit disappointing. Many of the gauges are not functional in this view, necessitating switching back and forth between VC and 2D. This was surprising to me because Flight1 products usually have the VC nailed. Things as simple as the altitude selector and the warning and caution lights, among others. Some have complained the VC is too "blocky". It is definitely not as pretty as some but I think it is OK - relatively smooth on the FPS. The FD doesn't seem to work very well. It calls for 30 degrees of climb then 30 degrees of dive - makes for a pretty wild ride if you really follow it! The AT doesn't work well either. For some reason it lags behind and the plane never makes it to its AS bug. Starting the engines is a hit and miss proposition. Sometimes the engines fire up best when I click the fuel switch OFF instead of on.Many other things I see called into question in the forum can be fixed by simply reading the manual thoroughly (APU problems for example). All in all, I love the DC9 - great plane, great product, and great service. It still needs a bit of attention but I'm confident Jim and his team will make this thing even better in the not too distant future.David

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Greetings!I too am very satisfied with the IK DC9, far too happy to let the rather embarrassing left, left front, right and right front views spoil my fun. I almost never use any virtual cockpit, on account of none of them being suitable for eDimensional 3d glasses in their (for me) optimum settings: divergence=0, separation=100%. Nevertheless, in the above mentioned views the IK DC9 kinda shoves the virtual cokpit down my throat, and believe me: it looks NASTY with stereo 3d settings that are (for me) optimized for looking at the world, the sky and the scenery. Besides: I can't DO anything with a virtual cockpit... It just sits there looking ugly, without the consolation of anything there "being clickable".But again, I really LOVE the IK DC9, and anytime I look left or right I remind myself that this is definitely not the end of the world (grin)!Jaap Verduijn.

[Guest]

Jaap,I agree that VCs aren't particular useful without multiple monitors and at least a few buttons to assign to important functions. With a keyboard emulator (Hagstrom.com) and TrackIR, the VC really comes to life and you will never go back! I guess I'm one of the few that really never grew to love my 3D glasses though.David

[Guest]

Hi David,Thanks for your comments and confidence.Well... This really is an "entertainment title" and I am flattered that you would see it as more than that, but just as the platform is referred to as an entertainment title, so is this. It is entertaining you correct? :-) Even though we have developed and titled it as such, it is amazing to see how many people take it so very seriously. As if we had promised a procedural trainer or something. It is quite flattering really, and the product will continue to evolve but our whole focus and promise was to deliver a title that focuses on the DC-9 and is very entertaining, not include every little button and function and a full blown POH. I think it is more than obvious from the initial response this certainly is being accomplished and the excitement and patience of the users will accomplish a product that will expand beyond it original intention (but don

[Guest]

Jim,I bought the DC9 just to take my mind off the wait for the Meridian! ;-) Seriously, your biggest sustainable advantage at this point is your excellent customer service. Sales through Flight1 are always smooth. I've lost my keys a few times and the support people have always helped me out in a timely fashion. You obviously peruse the forums regularly and provide thoughtful replies. That goes a long way in my book and will keep me coming back time and again. The DC9 was a pleasant surprise. If we agree it is an entertainment title, then there are a number of "arcade titles" out there and only a handful of "cockpit familiarization" addons available - perhaps PIC767 is the only true heavy of the genre but even that team made well considered compromises for the sake of playability. Thanks again for the entertainment!David

[Guest]

I think they chose to call it an entertainment product to avoid people from flaming them when something turns out to be a bit different from what they (think to) know it should be.Most of such claims will be bogus, but they can do serious harm nonetheless (just think of all the different cockpit layouts these aircraft can have and consider the damage one person can do who screams all over every forum and newsgroup that the panel is crap because the positioning of the gauges is "ALL WRONG!!!!!").

[Guest TimD]

David Lee wrote:"I became concerned about the Iron Knuckles DC9 a week or so ago when the developers started labeling it as an "entertainment title". I had hoped that didn't mean "dumbed down" too much. Well, I think Jim did his product a disservice by giving it that moniker."I think this is just a matter of semantics really. As much reality as we simmers like to put into this, both from the development and usage standpoint, the reality is that it is still an entertainment title whether we like it or not. It is not a level D sim.Look at it this way; Microsoft considers it a game. Note that it is part of their Games division, and is found under the Games section of their web site. This is something I have editorialized on a number of times in (the now defunct) Flight Simulator World Magazine. A lot of us get our nose out of joint when this simulator is referred to as a game. You can do a lot more with this platform than you can with a game.Now as much as I insist to anyone who will listen (like my wife) that this is a simulation, not a game, I think it is still fair to say that this is still entertainment. I'm afraid the platform itself still has not come far enough along to qualify it as serious business. But I think a lot of us hope that it is indeed heading in that direction. What we tried to do with the DC 9 was bring as much realism and real world functions into the simulator as is practical and reasonable, without sending peoples frame rates, etc. into the trash can. I appreciate your kind words, and glad you are enjoying the DC 9. It is an evolving project, so what you see now is not all it will eventually be as we add future enhancements, etc. based on user feedback, and technological improvements we discover ourselves along the way.Keep the blue on top!http://www.fsheartland.net/images/Signature_F1.jpg

[Guest]

Tim,The Game vs Sim always brings on a flood of passionate posts! Personally, I think it all depends on how you approach the use of the program. That said, my skepticism of the term "entertainment title" comes from its use in combat sims. I was really into Falcon 4 for a long time and it is what I would call a serious "study sim". That is not to say you can't just jump in and strafe the ground though! On the other hand, I must have 5,000 pages of information related to F16 combat and systems and after reading most of it and investing over 2000 hours with it, I still feel like an amateur!Janes F18 was a fairly serious sim and we had hopes that Janes USAF would be as well. Somewhere along the way it became an "entertainment title" (I think the company even used that term) with every system greatly dumbed down either to appease the masses or save costs (or both!). The majority of combatsims probably fit in an even lower class - arcade titles.PS1.3 747 is probably the best example of a serious study sim for the PC. PIC767 is a close second and perhaps DF737 somewhat further down the line. PSS is somewhere in the middle (I gave up on the Airbus so maybe it requires more study than I gave it). At the other end of the spectrum are the default FS jets. APs that don't function anything like their real-world counterparts and no FMCs. My father-in-law is a corporate pilot (GIVs and Challengers) and I've yet to be able to show him an addon of that genre that can be flown in the manner he is accustomed.To me, serious sims are the most entertaining, entertainment titles are fun if they are not overpriced, and arcade titles have no place on my harddrive. The DC9 is a very good compromise. IMO it is a good value for the money (granted I would have paid many times more for a serious study sim of the DC9!). I hope it becomes a commercial success for your team!DavidDavid

[Guest jaapverduijn]

I just followed some instructions found on "the other forum", and replaced the IK DC9 virtual cockpit sideviews with nice 2d bitmap sideviews from the SAS DC9. Now I am a FULL HUNDRED PERCENT happy with the Iron Knuckles DC9! It's a great add-on, and to me it's worth every cent I paid for it.A very happy Jaap Verduijn.

[Tabs 2,790]

I just followed some instructions found on "the other forum", and replaced the IK DC9 virtual cockpit sideviews with nice 2d bitmap sideviews from the SAS DC9. Now I am a FULL HUNDRED PERCENT happy with the Iron Knuckles DC9! It's a great add-on, and to me it's worth every cent I paid for it.

Could you point me to those instructions please?I agree with everything expressed here - this is the best airliner to come out since PIC or DF737 and I think it's the best hand-flying airliner ever for FS - the control is soooo smooth and responsive without being the least bit jerky or unpredictable - great job Steve Small!

[Guest]

The revised flight model makes it even more fun! I haven't taken the time to see if the EPR and FF come even close to the real bird but I'm having so much fun I'm not sure I care!David

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Forget the link. For some reason I cannot "paste" in this forum, and typing it out doesn't work. Possibly a difference between 0 and O or I or l... that kind of thing.Just go to the general "flightsim.com forum" and look for a thread called "Want to get rid of the VC sideviews" or something like that. It really works!Jaap Verduijn.

[Guest]

Guys, if you want to get rid of the Virtual cockpit view and use 2D views, see my eairler post here: http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID8/14370.htmlAlso, you can get some nice 2D side views here (under downloads)http://www.bahnhof.se/~classic/Cheers

[spilok 1,132]

Jaap,Please tell me where you got the side views, and how you had to edit a panel config to see them correctly! I,too, believe that with good 2D panel cockpit views....even maybe some wing views too, it would be a more satisfying airplane to fly.I look forward to hearing from you. Please copy your configuration so that we who are interested can paste it into ours. Much appreciated in advance. Stan

[Guest]

Stan, I posted the solution farther down in this thread...Cheers