DX 9 test

[Guest jase439]

Improvements appear to have been made with FSAA. Have yet to look at AF.

[Guest]

I'm glad you showed up to inject some sanity into the proceedings Paul! ;) (No disrespect meant to the other posters!)My understanding was the the DX9 beta release was aimed at Radeon 9700 (and now 9500) users. Both cards have native support for DX9. But as Paul says, nothing coded (other than some demos) yet utilises DX9.I'm bemused at such a gain in performance. Could you possibly run some further tests Dan and post results?Regardless, glad to hear you are seeing such an improvement. It must seem like an entirely new sim.Murphy.

[Guest Edam]

>Just do a search for DX 9 on this forum My error. I meant to say beta TEST sites.

[Guest]

I take real exception to your responce and the impression that you leave that I have told a big fat lie. That is the way your whole post reads in my opinion.I did the same scenery and aircraft before and after DX9 install. Sorry if it bugs you that what I have gained seems impossible. I am not, and in no way pretend to be a computer expert. I can only tell you the facts as to what happened before and after. My "testing methods" were pretty simple really. Before it did this, after it did that. Straight to the point. No fancy programs to check it all out. Just me and my old eyes, and my out dated computer.Why it happened I do not know. All I do know is a great increase in performance. For all I know Microsoft made a mistake, and programmed it to work properly without knowing it. To keep you happy I will be sure to not post anything further that I find makes my system work better. Heaven forbid I might lead someone astray with my foul tounge and heathen lies.http://www3.telus.net/dport1/Radar_small.gifFS2K2 = The best add-on for RADAR CONTACT ver.3http://www3.telus.net/dport1/Radar_small.gifhttp://www3.telus.net/dport1/dansig.jpg

[Guest PaulL01]

>I take real exception to your responce and the impression >that you leave that I have told a big fat lie. That is the >way your whole post reads in my opinion. You take exception to my response and then you want added pain by having me Bite you? :-roll :-lol>>I did the same scenery and aircraft before and after DX9 >install. Sorry if it bugs you that what I have gained seems >impossible.What you have gained is a Beta that contains >bugs<, will not uninstall as you will have to create a restore point in XP if you wish to return to an "as before" OS and many have had to do a complete re-install of XP as there are other problems plaguing the BETA DX9. What does "Bug" me is that anyone would see the info in your post that recommends installing DX9 BETA to increase performance in a DX7.x game especially with the claim of a 100-250% gain, a post that will lead many folks down a track that they will probably regret as it contains bugs, is hard to get rid of and is of a complete waist of time for anyone hoping for even a 1% gain in performance with the same exact hardware settings as before, unless you have an DX9 card and Game, nothing to do with FS2k2. Understand yet?. I am not, and in no way pretend to be a computer >expert. Right, neither am I. But you my still want to consider the advice and re-look at your post for Pete's sake; from "14-17" to "30-75 fps" ? Please! Folks wont get that kind of performance gain by even tripling their CPU speed and adding a R9700/GFFX video card but you think you got that increase in DX9? wake up Dan.I can only tell you the facts as to what happened >before and after. My "testing methods" were pretty simple >really. Before it did this, after it did that. Straight to >the point. No fancy programs to check it all out. Just me >and my old eyes, and my out dated computer. >Why it happened I do not know. All I do know is a great >increase in performance. For all I know Microsoft made a >mistake, and programmed it to work properly without knowing >it. Facts? anyone seen a Fax?>To keep you happy I will be sure to not post anything >further that I find makes my system work better. Heaven >forbid I might lead someone astray with my foul tounge and >heathen lies.No one accused you of lying, just being uninformed, incorrect or misguided by the hype of what someone else probably passed onto you.But if you wish to live in a world of misinformation that's your choice, just don't expect to post such crap in here or any other decent site without getting corrected, and when you are you don't have to take offense as we are all learning, as I have at least a hundred post on here in which I stuck my neck out on some issue and was quite wrong, but with the common goal of getting down to what "really works" viewpoint or opinions don't amount to anything, just the facts so there is no need for personal attacks.So here, have a chill pill take it with your favorite cold beverage and think before you post.

[Vulcan 14]

>Believe those problems go away.

[Guest]

Insalled dx9. No problems but no improvements.BobG

[Guest]

Paul,I'm sure you know there are many from our community (including ME) who respect and appreciate all the wonderful information you have provided over the past many months. I can't begin to tell you how many printed copies of your posts I have stashed in my hobby desk.The operative word here is "HOBBY". I feel you have taken a forum for a group of hobbyists and turned it into trashy gossip by publicly ridiculing a fellow simmer thru your righteous and pompous stance concerning his post to inform us of his results. THIS IS NOT A SCIENTIFIC TESTING GROUND FOR COMPUTER NERDS, LIKE YOU----- WE ARE HOBBYIST ENJOYING THE LOVE OF FLIGHT SIMULATION AND TRYING TO HELP EACH OTHER IMPROVE OUR ENJOYMENT ANY WAY WE CAN.I personally feel you owe Dan a PUBLIC apology for your post and I think YOU ARE THE ONE WHO NEEDS A "CHILL PILL" AS YOU FAIL TO SEE THE TRUE MEANING OF "HELP THY FELLOW MAN"(maybe you are NOT as intelligent as I had imagined)

[Guest]

Dan, that's VERY interesting. FS2002 is not a DX9 title and therefore won't take advantage of any DX9 optimizations. Also, NVIDIA has not released any DX9 drivers your card, nor will they, your card would not be enhanced in any way.I have installed and been running DX9 under XP since it first came out without a hitch so there are no concerns there. BTW, I DO have a DX9 compliant card, the Radeon 9700 Pro. I just want to make sure we make DX9's benifits clear and do away with this misinformation.With that said, lets be SURE what DX9 does and doesn't do. DX9 will NOT speed up existing DX7 or DX8.x titles at all. DX9 does NOT increase the horsepower of your video card. DX9 will NOT double your frame rates. DX9 will NOT make coffee. DX9 will not make you rich beyond your wildest dreams!DX9 DOES, however, introduce a new level of graphics capabilities that allow the dawn of "Toy Story" type graphics to be enjoyed on the home pc. This, in itself, is a massive revolution and the ushering in of a new era of PC game titles.The reason that ATI and NVIDIA are releasing new blazing chipsets is to take advantage of the new DX9 Graphical API that allows for new hyper realistic lighting and shading, high fidelity animation, and even individual hair folicles that reflect light and cast shadows! To process this the current GPU architecture is inadequate thusly, the GeForce2 /3 / 4 cards will never be DX9 compliant just as any cards by ATI before the 9700/9500 will go the way of the dinasaour.SO. Let's be clear with this. On your system (or mine) DX9 will NOT (repeat NOT) give you any real performance gains in FS2002 period. It may,MAY, fix a thing or two that MAY have been suboptimized in DX8.x and give you a 1 or 2 frames more or even give you a little more fluidity or give more optimization under FSAA, but it will not give you anything close to the gains you claim. Sorry.Personally, I went from a P4 2.0Ghz with a Geforce4 getting about 20 fps to a P4 2.8Ghz@3.2Ghz with a Radeon 9700 in orger to get a 100% frame jump. I NOW get 40fps solid everywhere. In other words, I had to drop 2+ grand to get a 100% leap in performance and so will you.Understand, I am not trying to make you out to be a liar, but I don't want people here to go though the upgrade for the wrong reasons. ANYONE WITHOUT A DX9 COMPLIANT CARD (Nvidia GeforceFX or Radeon 9700 /9500) NEED NOT WASTE THERE TIME WITH THE DOWNLOAD! DX9 is backward compatible so it won't crash your DX8 cards but don't be disappointed if it doesn't turn FS2002 into a level D simulator! :-lolIf you DO have one of these cards (well not the GeforceFX since it ain't out yet :-) ) then by all means dabble a little, DX9 RC0 is very stable. Again, you may or may not see a performance gain but hey at least you can run the COOOOOOOL DX9 graphical demos now and show off to your neighbors. I have tested restoring my system back to DX8.x and it reverts without a problem and NO, you DO NOT need to manually create a restore point in XP because restore does it anytime it senses a change in critical system files AUTOMATICALLY.I hope this clears the DX9 thing up and saves some the trouble and the bandwidth. What is an interesting aside is the fact that we are now at the end of DX8 production cards as developers gear up to knock our socks off with new titles. I have noticed that I have started dreaming of FS2004 in DX9 clothing..sitting at a hidden bush airport with the sun streaming though each rendered, moving leaf in the trees. Reflective water is trickeling from a stream at the side of the runway as perfectly rendered photorealisticly shaded airplanes sit parked gleaming in the sun. The grass sways in the breeze since each blade of grass is rendered and I am in heaven except for the fact that I am getting 5 fps!!! :-lol :-lol :-lolDX9 means its back to square one with the graphics cards all over again. Having a R9700 or NvidiaFX card will be a joke in three years as we again begin the struggle to keep up with the "power curve". Regards,Mike T.PS and yes, I AM a computer expert :-)M.

[Guest Bill Kunert]

Isn't the DX-9 beta a timed beta that will expire in early 2003? I thought I read that somewhere and, with no reliable way of uninstalling Direct X, problems could be expected.Bill

[Guest]

Paul may have been a little abrasive in his response but the bottom line is that he is right about the misinformation...see my post below.While we are all hobbyists we all have a great deal staked in our rigs and our FS2002 set up. Why futz with it for no reason??? The original post will have people scrambling for DX9 for ALL the wrong reasons and may even cause problems (BETA) all for no gain.As a hobbyist, if I hear that imersing my CPU in the bathtub for 8 hours a day will give me a 500% performance gain, I may just be dumb enough to try it but I'd rather have someone around to say...ummm, I've already tried it and all you get is a wet cpu!!! :-lolRegards,Mike T.

[Guest]

Bill:The realiable way to uninstall DX9 is simply to go to a restore point BEFORE DX9. It is that simple, period.DX9 RC0 is not a timed beta and will not expire as far as I know. Besides, MS will have updated it long before there is anything like that to worry about anyway.Mike T.

[Guest]

Mike T.,Thank you for an outstanding explanation of Dan's post. Not only have you explained everything in layman's terms, you have done so with DIGNITY , GRACE and STYLE.This thread began about 8 hours ago. My only regret is that you were not able to post your response about 7 hours ago. It would have saved a lot of unnecessary flaming and hurt feelings.I completely believe something has occured in Dan's system to tremendously improve his PERFORMANCE, and I only pray the MS Gods will visit mine.:-beerchug Cheers, my friend and Happy Flying to YOU!

[Guest jase439]

The Radeon cards are the only cards that I'm aware of which take advantage of the new DirectX 9 features and interfaces. However, the older DirectX interfaces are still supported. It is not out of line nor unreasonable to expect a general improvement to the core subsystem which is used by all DirectX interfaces.90% of DirectX 9 is DirectX 8 and earlier - the 'stuff' your games all presently run on ;-) Just because a game isn't designed to take advantage of a new interfaces does not mean it can't be optimised.I am not seeing the performance increase of the magnitude Dan reported. However, FS does appear to get a much needed shot in the arm from DX9. A consistent 20-30% increase is still a very significant "perceptual boost" when you're used to operating in the 15-20 fps domain.J

[Guest jase439]

>DX9 will NOT speed up existing DX7 or DX8.x titles at all. I agree with most of what you said, but take exception to the above remark. I won't repost here, but refer you to post #43.