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Dark Moment

How would you redesign the world's finest aircraft?

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if you think this topic is old by now.....wait till next year at this time then it will be old :( ...hey....don't know if this thread is still read, but....what is "dark moment"???...been bugging me for years....where or how did it originate?....cheers, vic

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There is a difference, however, between upgrading an FS2004 model for FSX and producing a model that is specifically designed for FSX. There is little doubt in our minds (what's left of them... thinking hurts) here at MAAM-SIM that the main reason for the group's established reputation has been the progressive development of the best DC-3 model for flightsim; from FS2000 on. Those of you who have supported MAAM over the years will be more than glad to hear, I think, that the DC-3 is top of our list for an all-singing, all-dancing FSX model.
Yay!!!! I am singing and dancing! Finally, my MAAM-SIM R4D's will have visible Astrodomes in FSX!!!! Go Go Go MAAM-SIM FSX Team!<tries to hide drool while wiping spittle off of monitor>
Importantly - and this is the reason for this thread - now is YOUR chance to give us input into what you would like to see in any next generation of DC-3s from MAAM-SIM. Will you post here with your ideas?
I absolutely LOVE the MAAM-SIM Gooneys, and I have added some panel mods (Gyro, HSI, Bendix-King AP) to make my single pilot flying less of a juggling act. I have only two suggestions, one "major" and one minor:1. I love the tire smoke on landing... but why do the tires also smoke at liftoff? :( This is not possible in the real world, so it seems that someone tied the tire smoke effect to a "some-but-less-than-all weight on that wheel" program hook, resulting in tire smoke on touchdown AND at liftoff. I hope the FSX version will show tire smoke only when appropriate, i.e. on touchdown.2. When parked at "turnaround" stops, especially in the African bush where I had my closest contact with these amazing aircraft, control locks (we called them "gust locks") are seldom applied- thus, the elevators invariably "droop" to the full nose-down position due to their own weight AND due to the pilots pushing the control column forward in order to get out of their seats. The only time the elevators on parked aircraft would be in the neutral "trail" position is when gust locks have been installed. In the real operational world, this was seldom done until the final stop of the day, i.e. when the airplane was to be left parked overnight, or at least unattended for several hours. Also, in the real world, DC3's were not "pushed back" as is the norm for airliners today. Generally, the aircraft were taxied straight at the "gate" (which was more of a clear patch in the mud than an actual "gate") and then sharply turned around using differential thrust and braking and stopped as soon as the airplane was faced correctly... leaving the tailwheel and sometimes the rudder "cocked" to the inside of the turn. In all taildragger sims that have flown, the tailwheels "miraculously" pop into straight alignment even when the aircraft is stopped while in the middle of a sharp turn. It would be nice to have "droopy elevators" and "cocked tailwheel/rudder" (if the aircraft is stopped mid-turn) be the default after engine shutdown, with an option switch to "install gust locks," bringing all controls to the "trail" position.Keep up the great work, and PLEASE hurry up with the FSX version of the amazing MAAM-SIM R4D package!

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Yay!!!! I am singing and dancing! Finally, my MAAM-SIM R4D's will have visible Astrodomes in FSX!!!! Go Go Go MAAM-SIM FSX Team!<tries to hide drool while wiping spittle off of monitor>I absolutely LOVE the MAAM-SIM Gooneys, and I have added some panel mods (Gyro, HSI, Bendix-King AP) to make my single pilot flying less of a juggling act. I have only two suggestions, one "major" and one minor:1. I love the tire smoke on landing... but why do the tires also smoke at liftoff? :( This is not possible in the real world, so it seems that someone tied the tire smoke effect to a "some-but-less-than-all weight on that wheel" program hook, resulting in tire smoke on touchdown AND at liftoff. I hope the FSX version will show tire smoke only when appropriate, i.e. on touchdown.2. When parked at "turnaround" stops, especially in the African bush where I had my closest contact with these amazing aircraft, control locks (we called them "gust locks") are seldom applied- thus, the elevators invariably "droop" to the full nose-down position due to their own weight AND due to the pilots pushing the control column forward in order to get out of their seats. The only time the elevators on parked aircraft would be in the neutral "trail" position is when gust locks have been installed. In the real operational world, this was seldom done until the final stop of the day, i.e. when the airplane was to be left parked overnight, or at least unattended for several hours. Also, in the real world, DC3's were not "pushed back" as is the norm for airliners today. Generally, the aircraft were taxied straight at the "gate" (which was more of a clear patch in the mud than an actual "gate") and then sharply turned around using differential thrust and braking and stopped as soon as the airplane was faced correctly... leaving the tailwheel and sometimes the rudder "cocked" to the inside of the turn. In all taildragger sims that have flown, the tailwheels "miraculously" pop into straight alignment even when the aircraft is stopped while in the middle of a sharp turn. It would be nice to have "droopy elevators" and "cocked tailwheel/rudder" (if the aircraft is stopped mid-turn) be the default after engine shutdown, with an option switch to "install gust locks," bringing all controls to the "trail" position.Keep up the great work, and PLEASE hurry up with the FSX version of the amazing MAAM-SIM R4D package!
Thanks for the kind words and the suggestions.The centered control surfaces have more to do with the self-centering control devices most of us use - yokes, joysticks and rudder pedals. This feature is, of course, unrealistic, but because of the way FS handles trim - also unrealistically, by shifting the C.O.B. - you would never achieve hands-off trimmed flight without these springs. If you were to remove your yoke's springs, which I do not recommend, you would indeed be able to push the yoke forward to get out of your chair and the elevators would remain down. Likewise your rudder would stay where you left your unsprung pedals. You can see this by disabling the control devices and use the key commands for the control surfaces, as shown in this screenie.... Note the cocked rudder and drooping elevators. You are right about the wheel, though. It does spring back to center, and perhaps there is something that Jan can do about this. He may even be able to make the elevators sag by default when the engines are shut down. But it would not look very nice for them to suddenly snap into neutral position when the engines were started to match your centered yoke, either, and all the programming involved to overcome such FS default behaviors might be more trouble than it's worth.

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Thanks for the great screenie! Other than the tailwheel, it looks exactly "right" to me. Also, I am bonking myself for not realizing that it's our own self-centering control devices causing the rudder & elevator "miraculous" centering problem. Thanks for reminding me.Any thoughts on the tire-smoke-at-liftoff issue?

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Note the cocked rudder and drooping elevators. You are right about the wheel, though. It does spring back to center, and perhaps there is something that Jan can do about this. He may even be able to make the elevators sag by default when the engines are shut down. But it would not look very nice for them to suddenly snap into neutral position when the engines were started to match your centered yoke, either, and all the programming involved to overcome such FS default behaviors might be more trouble than it's worth.
I just had a thought about how the drooping elevators and cocked rudder (if appropriate, i.e. the aircraft was stopped mid-turn) could be handled in FS:1. All flight controls should remain in whatever position they are in when the Master switch (battery) is turned off. One way of accomplishing this would be to programmatically disconnect (or set an "ignore" flag) the FS-user's stick and rudder control devices when the Master is turned off. In that way, those of us who get warm fuzzies seeing droopy elevators and/or cocked rudders on the ramp can accomplish it by holding forward stick and right/left rudder when we turn the Master off, while those who couldn't care less about such trivia won't be bothered by the change at all. If the FS-default tailwheel auto-centering can be overridden, it should simply remain where it was when the aircraft was stopped regardless of any subsequent control or switch movement, as long as the aircraft is stopped.2. When the Master switch is turned back on (or the engines auto-started with Ctrl-E or by the Sim placing the a/c on the active runway with engines running), the elevators and rudder should be brought back into conformance with the FS-user's control devices without "sproinging" back to neutral- a one-second transition would be realistic and unnoticeable to those users who couldn't care less. In other words, "re-connect" (or un-ignore) the FS-user's elevator and rudder control devices over a one-second time interval any time the Master is turned back on via any means- the FS pilot explicitly turns it on OR the Sim implicitly turns it on by auto-starting the engines.Yes, I know. I should be able to find more useful stuff to obsess about. Slap me. :(

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Yes, I know. I should be able to find more useful stuff to obsess about. Slap me. :(
SMACK! :( Actually, you may have some good ideas, but I'll leave it to Jan, Fred, and Hansi to figure out when the time comes.As for the "takeoff smoke", I can't duplicate it in either FS9 or FSX. So, the question is: What are you smoking, HoggyDog? :( Seriously, we've never had a report of this phenomenon. Which plane and which sim were you using, and does it happen at different default airports? Anyone else seeing the touchdown tire smoke effect at the moment of liftoff?

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As for the "takeoff smoke", I can't duplicate it in either FS9 or FSX. So, the question is: What are you smoking, HoggyDog? :( Seriously, we've never had a report of this phenomenon. Which plane and which sim were you using, and does it happen at different default airports? Anyone else seeing the touchdown tire smoke effect at the moment of liftoff?
Wow- I just assumed that everyone was experiencing this. I am flying the MAAM-SIM R4D-6 Bare Metal airplane, "stock" except for the HSI/Gyro panel addon available in the library here, using FSX SP1 **without** SP2 or the "transparency fix."This occurs 100% of the time, at all airports from which I have taken off in this airplane, requiring only that I be using an exterior view at the moment of liftoff. I thought about trying to get a screenie of the tires smoking at liftoff (to prove that the hemp I'm smoking is USDA approved), but a still shot wouldn't "prove" whether I was lifting off or touching down... unless one wanted to infer flight phase based on flaps being retracted... but of course it is perfectly possible to touch down in a slightly-tail-low wheel landing attitude 2/3 along a runway with flaps retracted... which would be indistinguishable from a takeoff in a still picture...I would be glad to attempt a video capture of this happening and email it to the MAAM-SIM team... if I knew how to do a vid cap in FSX... or who to email it to...*wanders aimlessly away, idly chatting to no one in particular*

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I hate to double-post, but this is an entirely different subject, and a direct response to the OP.In the oft-rumored but much delayed designed-for-FSX DC3 family, I would like to see realistic wing leading edges. All of the MAAM-SIM Gooneys seem to have strangely-pointed leading edges toward the lower surface of the wings... the real aircraft's leading edges are pretty evenly rounded, top to bottom.This is especially visible from a semi-frontal view of the airplane from around 10:00 or 2:00 o'clock looking back at the airplane- check the wing/nacelle juncture and you will see that the leading edges are rounded on top and come to an unrealistic more-or-less-sharp point toward the bottom of the leading edges.I just checked the native FSX DC3, and its leading edges appear more or less correct, i.e. rounded- so the issue is unique to the MAAM-SIM Gooneys.

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I would be glad to attempt a video capture of this happening and email it to the MAAM-SIM team... if I knew how to do a vid cap in FSX... or who to email it to...
News flash: I just captured two videos of R4D-6 tire smoke at liftoff- one at Atlanta Hartsfield and one at London Heathrow. Unfortunately, the AVI files are 4-5 GIGAbytes each, so I guess the only way to get them to any MAAM-SIM person is burn them to a DVD and snail-mail it.Please let me know if you want me to do that and if so, to whom (address etc.). Thanks.

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Hi guys,the thread is a bit old, but I would like to add my 2ct to this aircraft, which has been my favourite flightsim aircraft for many years now. Lately I went astray - for obvious reasons - and fly mainly the A2A B377 and the A2A Thunderbolt, as well as Aerosofts Catalina. I would like to see my old favourite match the quality and complexity of these products - I would love to reinvest in a new R4D / C-47.My points:- accurate engine model, like in the A2A Accusim types- accurate hydraulic / electrical system- a damage model - status window, like in the A2A aircraft, where aircraft systems / problems are shown (and can be corrected, in necessary, like overhaul an engine)- reworked cockpit with all the switches / systems working- environmental effects like freezing windows / carb icing / need for oxygen above 10k - graphically up to date, inside and out- flexing wings - creaking sounds when the aircraft is stressed (I fly the hump with the c-47.... enough said...)- cockpit windows to open, with wind and noise effectAnd another thing... a rather silly little gimmick, I know... after years and years in this cockpit, looking at the magnetic compass, which is hinged with rubber cords to the cockpit frame... I would love to see this thing wobble in turbulences (I guess it could be done...). As for new types:AC-47 Spooky GunshipC-47 Flare launcher (nice night-effects...)Thanks for this marvellous aircraft! Mark

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After touring your facilities and MAAM museum last fall I would say a fresh approach for FSX of many of the aircraft displayed there would be warranted. I really enjoyed being close up to the real deals. I think the C-119 Flying Boxcar would be a hit, especially is it included a number of transportable vehicles that could also double as interesting runabouts at visited airports. Be sure to leave that big dent on the elevator! Thanks for a pleasant afternoon.Stephen

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I would support the earlier reply that suggested the addition of an animated copilot and passengers to lessen the feeling of always flying solo. Another good suggestion made was that of the addition of the subtle sounds of creaking, squealing, popping, etc. to enhance that dimension of the flight experience. When these elements are added, the total experience of flying this aircraft improves just as it does when the gauges and switches are made clickable and the flight files are tweaked to give the pilot a good feel of the DC-3. Looking forward to a true FSX version.

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Thinking about this, what I'd really like to see is a Basler BT-67 variant included, which would be a case of stretching it and redesigning the engine nacelles plus the addition some modern avionics. Doing that would probably widen the appeal of it to those who might otherwise not be interested in an 'old' aeroplane.Al.

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I vote for a modern radios and IFR panel option on the DC-3 as well -- similar to those panels found on restored airshow DC-3/C-47s.

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how about a well endowed blond lady passenger, who gets hysterical and screams alot :):):)

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I have a couple of requests for the new fsx R4D/C-47. Hopefully the navy/marine corps receive more attention in the paint scheme area. Average line duty type paint schemes worn by R4D's (including sea blue over gull gray colors). Also there should be a difference between the type of flight gear worn by the army air corps and navy/marine corps aircrew. For instance I doubt aircrew wore sheep skin lined leather jackets when flying in the pacific area. Also the head gear (hats) should be represetative of what was actually worn by pilots (army air corps and navy/marine corps). For instance, the army air corp wore a "crush" type barracks hat, while navy/marine corps aircrew wore the soft garrison cover (hat). Its also true aircrew of all services were more or less likely to wear no hat while flying.These may seem like small details but I asume accurate representation of the crews (civilain and military) that flew this great aicraft is important. I own aircraft made by carenado,eaglesoft and dreamfleet aircraft. Your R4D/C47 is the best of the bunch. Have a good day! Dennis

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Any news on this yet Bill? Is it in Alpha or Beta stages please?

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Any news on this yet Bill? Is it in Alpha or Beta stages please?
An answer would be appreciated please?

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Badgering at every opportunity will get you and us nowhere...I would love to have what is one of the most well known and iconic aircraft ever to have been designed and built in FSX, at a level of realism and quality like A2A and so on. I sit and wait, hoping that this wish will come true...If it doesn't then so be it.I certainly see no reason for purchasing the competition's variant, as it just doesn't do the aircraft justice in my mind.We'll see the N3N and have an idea of what the revamped DC3/C47 may turn out to be for FSX...Andrew

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Badgering at every opportunity will get you and us nowhere...Andrew
You call my post 'badgering' after asking a question that after 2 months has not recieved an answer? Apology please?

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With all due respect, you seem to be expecting an answer. We have absolutely no right whatsoever to expect an answer to any question set. Every developer is within his/her rights to ignore any question on previews of upcoming work, status, release dates and so on. Asking again and again is badgering. Andrew

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Well in my book it's common decency to answer or at least respond to a meaningful question. It is rude and disrespectful to ignore paying customers and this usually results in protesting with their feet and choosing a rivals product. Developers who respond prosper, and they do that by building relations with their customers.That is my final word on this. Respect cost's nothing but means much more.

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