Windows Vista

[deltafan 1]

MS recently announced that Vista will only be able to be transfered onto a new machine only once.http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/2100-...tml?tag=nl.e019Does this apply to:1. Wiping a drive to clean it and reinstalling the OS?2. Upgrading your harddrive and having to reinstall the OS?Will I be able to reinstall it in those cases or will I have to buy a new copy each time?

[Guest allcott]

As things stand at the moment:1: No2: YesTwo installs on `different` computers and that's it. Quite what a `different` computer is will be subject to speculation, but it will definitely include a replacement hard drive.Allcott

[deltafan 1]

So it sounds like then if I do a clean reinstall of the OS on the drive or install a different HD, as long as Vista can tell it's on the same computer, it will install?

[Guest allcott]

I thought I answered that? A new hard drive means a `new` computer, in MS speak. A reformat doesn't.So if you must install Vista (and I don't see why you must) wait until you have assembled ALL the hardware, then install it. DON'T try and do the hardware upgrades piecemeal, or it will cost you dear in extra licences for Vista. That's as things stnad at the moment, based on what we know about Vista activatino so far. And frankly, on-one from MS seems to be contradicting the statements being made all over the web. Vista is a very scary OS and may kill the FSX project stone dead, IMHO, if the take-up renders FSX irrelevant as a `Windows Showcase` product. At the very least, run a dual boot with XP.Allcott

[deltafan 1]

OK. Hopefully we get more details from MS sson.

[scott967 62]

Here is text from the license:"INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. Before you use the software under a license, you must assign that license to one device (physical hardware system). That device is the

[Guest allcott]

Correct. As things stand, if you move the OS to another partition, say because you can't stand Vista as you day-to-day OS and want to reinstall Windows XP but need to keep Vista for the DX10 features and FSX, Vista will call that a new "device" and it will cost you the second activation. Changing the C: drive, for example by buying a bigger, better hard drive, ALSO constitutes a new "device" and will also constitute a second activation. But just reinstalling because things have got messy and cluttered and you want to start with a clean slate, or you picked up a virus that the MS protection systems couldn't protect you from and it won't be a second activation, as no hardware changes have been made. This is quite patently ridiculous. Quite what happens in the event of a hard drive failure calling for a a replacement is deliberately not made clear in the EULA. And when things are deliberately not made clear, there is always an agenda. MS have also not yet made plain what a "device" consists of. It might even extend to sound and graphics cards, but not RAM. It is unlikely most flight sim users will migrate to Vista lock, stock and barrel. Most likely a gradual transition - Vista first, see how things run, then new hardware including the forced change of a graphics card to run DX10. Possibly a new mobo, CPU or even a new or additional hard drive because Vista takes up so much installed space there's not enough room on the drive (or the partition) for a dual boot of XP, or because the new size of addons for FSX make exisiting drives untenable (Have you seen the installed size of the next generation of photoscenery? 22 GIG required for the England and Wales alone).On the basis of the EULA as it stands, sim users could be looking at least at one extra copy of Vista, possibly two maybe even three in order to configure the computer to run an MS product on an MS operating system. Can you afford that? I can't. And in the meantime, the downtime when Vista switches itself off renders your computer all but useless, your FSX unplayable. And that is unacceptable to me, as I work from home quite frequently, using my own computer rather than a company-supplied one. This is not an over-simplification or a conspiracy-theory statement, it is fact. MS have had the opportunity to clarify the EULA to correct any mistakes in that understanding, and they have actually reinforced that understanding as correct. The only area for flexibility is how - and how much - the license reactivation system works. It might just be ten bucks, you might have to go all the way to the computer store, by another copy of the OS. Think about the social cost of that while you are contributing to Microsofts profits. My nearest large computer store is a 40-mile round trip. Still want Vista?Allcott

[deltafan 1]

The size of FSX addons may come down as people figure out how to optimize them. I've got a 180GB hard drive, so it shouldn't be an issue right now.Nevertheless, it is rather evil that this is it. If MS is so concerned about piracy, why not have online registration of Vista (like FSX) and it is the users responsiblility to deactivate the registration if they plan to do a hardware upgrade, then reactivate it once they are online again? To me, that sounds like a simple way to solving this issue.

[orchestra_nl 927]

According to this site: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing.asp nothing has changed in the eula, except that it is now more clearly written, less open to "favourable" interpretation.If that is true, I am sure lots of hardware tinkerers are in violation of the eula for XP.I always assumed that when I scrap my old PC, and removed the software from it, I am in my right to install windows (and office, and Flightsimulator) on my new PC, and that that would be completely legal. It seems I was always wrong. I am allowed to upgrade a machine, but I cannot install on a brand new machine. I wonder then what is the difference between a OEM and a retail license, and why I would purchase an expensive retail version instead of the OEM.It seems to be the same as with the activation for FSX, microsoft MAY grand you another activation, or they might not. You MAY be granted a new activation on a new computer, but you are not entitled to it according to the eula, and microsft has every right to decline the activation if they suspect that the computer is new.Allard

[Guest gremel]

This is exactly why I'm waiting to purchase a new system WITH the Vista OS system, DX10, along with Intel's core duo 2 processor. Too many things could go wrong and have so in the past.Just my opinion..jack

[DescendDescend 25]

Installations on a new machine may be in violation of what Microsoft intended to mean but I think MS would have a hard time proving a violation of what the xp licence actually says.Still, MS have always been very flexible for me. Having built several PC's and transferred xp pro around them, thus complying with the removal from the old machine, I have never had any trouble activating it on line.I get the impression from the article that this will continue with Vista. In any case, maybe if you buy a top class hard drive at the beginning, the chances are it will last you five years - as long as Vista. Then you can change components around the drive without Vista ever thinking it is being re-activated on a new system, thus complying with any interpretation of the 'clearer' Vista EULA.

[Guest allcott]

Wise move. It might still turn out to be a misunderstanding, but certainly its a `change` not a `clarification`. MS have always had the option of identifying multiple installations versus repeated hardware changes and restricting access at reactivation, but this marks more than just a re-writing of some badly-worded agreement. This is a fundamental change, a paradigm shift in the relationship between MS and its customers. Previously, you had an automatic entitlement to keep using the software following a successful activation. That will no longer be the case with Vista. Wait and see seems to be the very best advice. No one needs to be the first in the pool with sharks. Wait for someone else to show they're the plankton eating kind :)Allcott

[Guest Eek]

>So if you must install Vista (and I don't see why you must)>wait until you have assembled ALL the hardware, then install>it. DON'T try and do the hardware upgrades piecemeal, or it>will cost you dear in extra licences for Vista. That should make troubleshooting a hardware problem fun. They'll get my XP when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.:-samurai ~EwingKATLMSI K8N Neo2 PlatinumAMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0 GHz2GB Corsair PC-3200 512x4 Dual Channel CL2.5 DDR DIMM eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3Sound Blaster Audigy LSOCZ Powerstream 420WWinXPPro (SP1)

[deltafan 1]

Perhaps I should see about getting huge drive in now before I get Vista, unless MS says a hardware/drive change would still be OK.

[Guest Funky D]

Doesn't Vista use a method similar to XP? That is, you need to upgrade multiple components in order to trigger re-activation? Hard drives crash all the time... I can't see how a drive change in itself would trigger re-activation, and even if it did you can call for an activation ## and claim your old drive crashed and was replaced under warranty.I've upgraded my computer many times... had to call MS twice since I've used up all my activations on hardware changes. I've never even been questioned...Little bit of paranoia out there? :) MS is the one to be paranoid... how many antitrust suits have they had to deal with? The last thing MS wants to do is mess with the people who have legally obtained a copy of Vista.Paul