What he said. No version of Vista for me. - Doug

>DRM is only a nuisance, if you choose to use it. If you don't>have anything DRM then it won't make any difference. iTunes>uses DRM as well and noone seems to complain about it.>>Vista is actually a lot less 'bloated' than any previous OS>from MS and the performance loss right now is minimal. Yes, it>will need more RAM, but only a fraction goes towards the>additional 'bells and whistles', but mostly towards the new>indexing function and hardware failure detection, which can>both be turned off.>>A lot of the changes in Vista are actually under the hood:>Better memory management, more effective CPU cycles,>multimedia, I/O and thread optimization. All this will greatly>help improve stability and performance. I am not a fanboi, but>I know what I am talking about, because I have lived and>breathed IT in over 20 years. >>Win98SE and 95 have not been supported for years, so if you're>happy with all the security holes, then so be it.>>Not critizing at all. It's all about personal preference.>>Some are happy with a 15yo Ford Bronco with an 8-track, some>others want the latest Beemer with surround, GPS and the>additional things that make the experience more comfortable.>>PatIf you want people to believe you know what you

> What he said. No version of Vista for me. - DougNo version of XP or Vista for me.

>As always it won't be rosy to begin with but I do think MS>have worked to make this a better more stable release than>before. Combined with my new hardware (see my sig) my setup>should be outstanding when combined with DX10 and what the>future holds for games.Before you see any games which utilize dx10 to it's full potential the system in your sig (btw, can you make it bigger?, hard to see) will be middle end at the best (12-18 months from now, IF we are lucky). Very few developers develop for dx10 only now, because of compatibility issues, lack of proper hardware/drivers combination and most important - user base. Those games must sell, ya know. Hard to sell them to corporate users running low - end dell machines and few hardcore gamers who buy everything what is new.If anything, we will see more of shift towards XBox 360 (this is what MS have done right, XBox 360 is truly great for development) which is basically dx9 machine and then some artificial DX10 (dx9 for real) PC ports with big stickers DESIGNED FOR VISTA.You would be very surprised how many games use dx8 and lower and you don't even know it.I am not switching to Vista anytime soon. I moved most of my gaming to XBox 360, excluding FS9, my workstation (see my sig ;) )can happily run Linux (all applications I use are ported to Linux).Vista may be good choice in 2 or 3 years from now - if it survives.

Thank you for taking this thread down from a constructive discussion down the cynical road.As I said, it's a matter of personal preference. You got me on the end of support date, but that doesn't change the fact that there are no additional updates and security fixes anymore for 95/98SE. The world certanly will continue to turn when leaving those OSes installed, however someone is due to make a really long face, if he notices that his data have been compromised.It has nothing to do with hysteria. I have seen many cases where we were a few hours too late in rolling out new security fixes which resulted in a few thousand workstation being compromised and rendered non functional. That's not a hacker paranonia, but a fact.Pat

I will be installing Vista Ultimate, the gamers choice. I am doing this because I want to run the latest software on the latest hardware. As well, I'm in the IT business, and learning everything about the OS is key to my business.... you can't support what you do not know.XP was good to me. I have found it to be a very stable, and robust platform for both work and play. I ran the Vista RC's for a few months, and was plenty satisfied with the results.I read too. I see many posts about performance in Vista, and to be truly honest, my own experience with the OS does not reflect the issues most people talk about. For me, Vista ran very smooth, intelligently, and more secure. The OS was very well designed in comparison to XP. It is more intuitive. Features that should have been deployed years ago in XP are finally available in Vista.My honest opinion, is that if I were truly happy with the state of all things in the computer world, and did not want to keep up with software/hardware advancements, then I would most certainly stick with XP Pro as my OS.... however, I do want to play new games, and I do want to take advantage of the new features of both hardware and software that Vista will make possible. So sticking with XP is definitely not an option. It all depends on your needs. Are you truly happy with your setup? Do you want to sit forever running XP, DX9 and software/hardware that will slowly fade into oblivion and become unsupported to the point that new exploits are no longer patch? Your choice.I should stress that anyone who reads a lot and tries very little for themselves, take the plunge... go play with Vista on some machine and see what you think. Most people out there post their issues with the OS without realizing that their issues are caused by something between the keyboard and chair... then they go tell the world about it. This is unfortunate, but its life. Expect to see more accurate representations of the Vista experience AFTER the OS is actually released, and that drivers and hardware are all in place.... cuz deciding now is just stupid in my opinion.... no current benchmark shows the true power of this OS... and won't until everything is retail.

I disagree so vehemently with Kev that it is actually causing me pain... :7All you will achieve by being an `early adopter` of Vista is Trouble with a capital `T`. There is precisely ZERO reason for migration other than "I must be the first to try it" and frankly, if you DO try it and then come here expecting help for the inevitable Trouble it will cause you, will Kev and his IT ilk be around to solve the problems? Bet they won't. You will be on your own, and lonely. Already poste problems include FS9 not running, drivers that slow FSX to a crawl from walking pace instead of making it fly, and installation difficulties requiring a re-installation of the OLD OS to correct. How can anyone think Vista is ready for prime time? No-one is talking about `forever`, but for the forseeable future there is no need, desire or reason to change an OS. If the desire is to get a better running Flight Sim, put the money you would be sending on whatever version of Vista to upgrading your hardware NOW. There is NOTHING in FSX that will benefit from the change of OS, everything benefits from a better graphics card, faster chip, or more RAM. That benefit will ONLY come, potentially, when the DX10 patch is issued at the end of 2007. And given ACES delivery on FSX performance so far, I'm waiting to see it happen before I even think about it.So the end of 2007 will be the first tme I will even entertain looking at Vista, by which time many of the inevitable issues that MS haven't foreseen or dealt with will have been resolved and the transition, if necessary, should be smoother. ;)Allcott

I love this stuff. Those who have tried VISTA beta say they will change and love it. Those who still run Windows 98 say they will not. Isn't that just about enought said...If you are afraid of difficulty, then indeed..Do not use FSX, stay with something older...Do not use VISTA, stay with something older...Don't buy a new car, it has all that pollution control stuff and gives you bad mileage...The naysayers will always remain and smuggly thing they are right...Sigh!

> All you will achieve by being an `early adopter` of Vista is Trouble> with a capital `T`. There is precisely ZERO reason for migration other> than "I must be the first to try it" and frankly, if you DO try it and> then come here expecting help for the inevitable Trouble it will cause> you, will Kev and his IT ilk be around to solve the problems?You and I differ, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.I don't have the 'trouble' that most users run into. For example, most complained about how the Vista DX9 performance was supposedly very bad indeed. I knew that we were testing beta drivers, I knew what to expect, and I knew that benchmarking something that is in beta is absolutely useless.... so indeed, where people had 'issues', I had an understanding. (btw: for me at least, DX9 perf on Vista was in fact as good, if not better than my XP experience...)As for reasons to migrate to Vista... there are plenty. I am not about to justify it to some unknown, but being on top of technology is my job... I'll leave it at that.It has nothing to do with the fact that 'I must be the first to try it'... that's a useless statement actually. I will be installing it and using it on a regular basis, on both primary and secondary PC's. I've already done my initial software compatibility tests with the RC releases, I know what I have that works, and what I will have to wait for a developer patch. I'm okay with it all...Also... I should state, that I do not come to AVSIM for any help with Vista... I come here to find out what others are doing to combat low FSX performance issues.I'm glad that your going to wait a year before installing the OS. And I hope that you appreciate others who will have had it running since release for any help and input they may have regarding any questions you may have at that point.If everyone waits a year to install it... how can it mature and prove itself?!?!?!

"If everyone waits a year to install it... how can it mature and prove itself?!?!?!"Exactly! Great point :)

Thanks :) What it comes down to is this.... Vista is not forced upon any of you. Each one of you have a choice. If you want to stay up to date with software and hardware, you need the platform that can do it.. and Vista is that platform. If your happy where your at, and don't really care about how software is advancing, then don't install Vista and don't worry or concern yourself with those who are. Fairly simple really. If your happy with XP, why post in a Vista thread?

Because the title of the post was will you or won't you install Vista for FSX.I for one won't. XP Pro works great for me and is very secure. It's not a matter of staying up to date or being left behind, as XP will run any commercial software Vista will at this moment and this will likely be so for some time to come. The only thing Vista may offer FSX that FS9 can't is DX10, and that won't won't be out for the near future. When the major commercial software players start dropping support for XP, that is the only time your argument will hold any water and that will not be anytime some.-James

Well,I started this thread and after reading all the responses, I totally agree with Dijohn2 and Key.Most problems that people have with new stuff (FSX and now, VISTA) are usually problems that exist on their current systems, or as one of these gentlemen said, the problem exists (often) between the keyboard and the chair.I will buy VISTA ULTIMATE this week and give it a go. Where would we be without Christopher Columbus and others just like him. I bought an expensive, strong computer a few months back, and I'm not LOOKING back!I deleted FS9 the first day FSX came out and I've never been sorry. FSX is great and so enjoyable with its realism over the previous product. Frame rates are lower, but smoothness and fluidity are much higher. I don't get stutters or jerks. I did with FS9 even at over 40FPS!OK....VISTA, here I come to get ya!

>I for one won't. XP Pro works great for me and is very secure.>It's not a matter of staying up to date or being left behind,>as XP will run any commercial software Vista will at this>moment and this will likely be so for some time to come. The>only thing Vista may offer FSX that FS9 can't is DX10, and>that won't won't be out for the near future. When the major>commercial software players start dropping support for XP,>that is the only time your argument will hold any water and>that will not be anytime some.I hate to report, but you are actually wrong here. Major players have already had products announced for Vista. Their biggest sales pitch is that the new robustness and security of the new OS provides the best platform for the product to date.XP is anything but secure by the way, thought I should correct you on that note as well.Lastly... XP can not run 'anything' that Vista can. There are already products on the market that would cry themselves do death on an XP machine... specifically because they call API's that simply did not exist on that platform. Lots of major system API's have been redone from the ground up, so what happens when you run it on XP and the API is outdated or doesn't even exist? Really.... 'Vista specific' software will not run well or at all on XP.. as long as the code is actually taking advantage of the new OS to the fullest extent. The only exceptions would be where the developer has interest in developing a cross-platform version.

>I love this stuff. Those who have tried VISTA beta say they>will change and love it. Those who still run Windows 98 say>they will not. Isn't that just about enought said...>>If you are afraid of difficulty, then indeed..>>Do not use FSX, stay with something older...>>Do not use VISTA, stay with something older...>>Don't buy a new car, it has all that pollution control stuff>and gives you bad mileage...>>The naysayers will always remain and smuggly thing they are>right...>>Sigh!You are making a number of incorrect assumptions as to the reason for my objections to XP and Vista. My problem with both is their accompanying EULA. XP