Be it that way. I stated my point and I won't participate in any conspiracy or privacy topics anymore, unless they're directly related to flight simming.A lot of the answers in here are from uneducated users who pull their information from doomsday websites while advocating software piracy and threatening an entire generation of artists and developers. There is nothing new in Vista that hasn't be done before by various other companies - nothing.This discussion has gone too far anyway and continuing it would continue to be as pointless as a fanboi discussion over Vista vs. OSX or ATi vs. nVidia.Pat

...from uneducated users who pull their information from doomsday websites while advocating software piracy and threatening an entire generation of artists and developers.It is this statement that shows a decided lack of education. No one here is advocating software piracy, nor is anyone here threatening an entire generation of artists and developers. All anyone here wants is for the software developers to, for a change, give a modicum of thought to the rights of their paying customers, rather than usurping those rights in favor of anti-piracy schemes that have been proven not to succeed.You are correct about one thing, though... after making statements like the above you should probably bow out of such discussions.

Yes, you are advocating software piracy, because you refuse to activate and legitimize your (imaginery) copy of Vista. You complain about WGA, DRM and paint a apolyptical picture as if MS would track your every step and store your personal information on their servers.Noone of the nay-sayers has come up with an alternative suggestion to fight the root of the problem, but they are loudly pounding on their "right" as a "paying" customer. Vista has introduced nothing new - it just has adapted mechanisms that have been used by others for years.Interestingly enough, all of you have posted this in an FSX forum. FSX uses the same activation/tracking process, so eithera) You're a hypocrite -or-:( You're posting in the wrong forum without even owning a copy of FSXPat

Yes, you are advocating software piracy, because you refuse to activate and legitimize your (imaginery) copy of Vista. You complain about WGA, DRM and paint a apolyptical picture as if MS would track your every step and store your personal information on their servers.Noone of the nay-sayers has come up with an alternative suggestion to fight the root of the problem, but they are loudly pounding on their "right" as a "paying" customer. Vista has introduced nothing new - it just has adapted mechanisms that have been used by others for years.Interestingly enough, all of you have posted this in an FSX forum.FSX uses the same activation/tracking process, so eithera) You're a hypocrite -or-:( You're posting in the wrong forum without even owning a copy of FSXActually, what many computer owners choose to do is not buy the product at this time. That is our lawful right. Our money, our choice. And for the record, I'm not so much concerned about MS tracking my every step, rather I'm concerned about buying a software so pervasive with anti-piracy technology that will not stop piracy, but could very well compromise my ability to upgrade the hardware on my system. My decision at this time is to adoopt a wait and see position, which means the money stays in my pocket at least until all the parinoia dies down and consumers can have the chance to research the facts without the doomsdaysayers or MS marketing mainipualting the situation.Next, I offered to you in another thread another option regarding using the law as a tool to attack piracy. You cast aside the option claiming that using the law would cause undue burden on the courts, which is the same tact you claim us "hypocites" are following. It would be easy for anyone who disagrees with you to claim that you too don't care about fighting piracy because you don't believe the courts are a viable tool in fighting piracy. We've been far kinder than you in not making such assertions. Fighting piracy will not succeed through technology alone... legal and societal tools must be utilized as well.This is not just an FSX forum, it is a flightsim forum.I purchased a copy of FSX when it was released. Couldn't get it to install on my lawfully owned XP system. I was advised by MS that I needed to reformat and reinstall XP. I'm not willing to do that at this time, so I asked for and promptly receieved a refund from MS (they were very nice about it, and I quickly received the refund). I may in the future (and at my discretion... another right lawful purchasers have) revisit FSX, but for the time being I'm quite happy simming with FS9. So, explain now how that makes me a hypocrite.

People are waiting here in the US sometimes for years for trials. The judicial system is already overwhelmed. It is simply not practical to fine or throw everyone into jail who uses pirated media. However, I do strongly agree that some legislative decisions are being made to punish software piracy ...and spam. 700 spam emails a day - that is inconvenience! Such a legislative decision would be most likely based on the implementation of electronic surveillance, unless you want to hire tens of thousand of agents who knock on your door to check the contents on your harddrive. Wouldn't that be a much larger inconvenience?The fact that you installed (well, tried to install) FSX made you subject to the same anti-piracy efforts of MS that you so loudly oppose in Vista. I call that hippocrasy.It is really nothing against you - I just want to get the facts straight. I read every message carefully and try to understand, but it seems we're not getting anywhere here.Let's just give each other a collective hug.If you don't like Vista: Don't use it.If you don't like FSX: Don't use it.The only thing that gets me going is that people trying to convince or educate people about the 'dangers' of Vista, which are for the most part based on incorrect facts. I respect you for your choice to not go with Vista, but I expect the same tolerance in return.

The fact that you installed (well, tried to install) FSX made you subject to the same anti-piracy efforts of MS that you so loudly oppose in Vista. I call that hippocrasy.How so? Because I made the mistake that many avid simmers make and bought the software at release date (just as I did with numerous past versions of FS)... before I was fully aware of how the anit-piracy technology included in the software might have problems with my system. I'll readily admit that I allowed my excitement at seeing it on the shelve get the better of me, but I don't see that as any form of hypocracy.It is really nothing against you - I just want to get the facts straight. I read every message carefully and try to understand...As we all do. Unfortunately, the facts are few and far between at this time (it's that hysteria factor that rears it's ugly head anytime a new OS is released) from both sides of the issue.Let's just give each other a collective hug.Cool! But no kissing. :-) I respect you for your choice to not go with Vista, but I expect the same tolerance in return.No problem there. In time the dust will settle, more info and facts (good and bad) will come out, and folks who are reluctant today can make their decision when the time is right for them (whether next week or next year or never).

Not trying to convince, perhaps inform rather than educate. As with most topics, there are more than two sides: both extremes and a great number in between. The so-called doomsayers tend to offset those who clamour for the hyperbole, bling-bling and WOW factor.If the facts pointed out in the article to which I linked and suggested be read are indeed untrue, why did that person take the time to compile it and why did it attract some very eminate people in agreement? If the author was intent upon "educating" the masses, he certainly didn't opt for a very good method of dissemenation; I should think some other medium than an obscure website would have been better.Why hasn't MS been more forthcoming in denying the author's facts if they are indeed false? They were invited to so do and in some cases actually responded, but not to all.For example, can you catagorically state that based upon your knowledge of Vista code, that the tilt-bits do not exist, and their affect upon hardware, that the author describes in depth are fabrications of his mind?Maybe there's a really, really good reason why video card drivers, for example, have been failing to perform....the manufacturer can't please Vista's constant monitoring. Notwithstanding your superior knowledge and expertise, I believe I'll wait for MS to refute the author's arguments. But before that happens, I think there'll be a large blowup between hardware and software vendors and MS because of all the complaints customers are sending to both and the finger pointing between both eventually being responsible for a "patch".Vista isn't "dangerous" while it's in it's unsealed package. But the trend demonstrated by MS in it's monopolistic approach via Vista is surely a precipitous slope.

MS has been pretty forward in supplying us with facts and beta versions, even more so now compared to any previous OS.I am not after the "bling" factor at all. I am the one who will hear the outcry in a few months when I roll out Vista to 20,000 workstations, not Microsoft. That said, it is my personal and professional interest to do it "right", to evaluate, analyze and implement. If I want to do that, I need to stay with facts that I research from Microsoft, collegues and by employing 3rd party analysts.If I would be all hysteric hunting after every rumor that has been published, then I would be either unemployed now or would have suffered a nervous breakdown or heart attack.Pat

Speaking of heart attacks, nice how this thread has spun completely out of control. I have learned some very valuable lessons...1) I am not human, I am an IT manager.2) I know nothing of the right to privacy, because of point A3) Because another website posts something, my very educated and experience / observation driven comments on Vista, WGA, and Privacy are completely irrelevant... simply because of point 2.4) I am pointless, stupid, and not welcome until I change my mind and get on the bandwagon like everyone else, regardless of the fact that I know the technology inside and out... regardless that opposing assertions relating to driving cars are completely stupid and irrelevant. Prolly because of point 1.5) I *HAVE* to cancel my plans to purchase and install Vista because it definitely invades my privacy.... a website told me so.Yup.... and I'll get right on that.oh, I forgot one....6. I am also not a flight-simmer, because I am an IT manager and I like Vista. I have no right to post any comments regarding my awesome experience with FSX on the Vista platform compared to my XP machines.Too many hero's around here methinks.... too many folks that don't have a clue, and base everything on reading an online article. But, lemmings are people too... so have a good :)

>Yes, you are advocating software piracy, because you refuse>to activate and legitimize your (imaginery) copy of Vista. You>complain about WGA, DRM and paint a apolyptical picture as if>MS would track your every step and store your personal>information on their servers.>>Noone of the nay-sayers has come up with an alternative>suggestion to fight the root of the problem, but they are>loudly pounding on their "right" as a "paying" customer. Vista>has introduced nothing new - it just has adapted mechanisms>that have been used by others for years.>>Interestingly enough, all of you have posted this in an FSX>forum. >>FSX uses the same activation/tracking process, so either>>a) You're a hypocrite -or->:( You're posting in the wrong forum without even owning a>copy of FSX>>PatStarting tomorrow, Pat, I am going to search your home daily for illegal drugs and weapons that may have been used in recent criminal activity in your area. (Boy

omg. Just when I thought it couldn't get any funnier.How is asking you to have your Windows activate itself anything like having a team of cops come into your house ransacking the place?!?!?!Besides... activation should take place on a clean system that has just been installed, nothing even remotely personal should be on the system.If your about to respond by asking, "What about people who upgrade from XP?" Well I tell you this.... how are you going to expect one OS to run well by importing files and setting from the old setup? Everyone knows that a clean install is THEE only way to go, especially when moving up to a newer OS altogether. Why import problems? Of course, by no means do I suggest you don't move all your private files over at some point... I mean things like registry settings and obsolete XP application files and components that Vista won't like.I just don't get why you people are really taking offense to WGA... it is nothing like driving a car, nor is it even close to a gestapo-like lockdown on your house. If it were seriously deemed illegal, more people would be on your bandwagon, and lawmakers would have made a case LONG before now.... but they haven't, simply because your view of WGA is absurd.Seriously... I am not one to be offensive, or take things to heart... but this thread has shown me what I already knew from experience. Computer users aren't the smartest... This is why the first words out of my mouth when I get a call are, "Is it plugged in? Is it on?"

>omg. Just when I thought it couldn't get any funnier.>>How is asking you to have your Windows activate itself>anything like having a team of cops come into your house>ransacking the place?!?!?!>>Besides... activation should take place on a clean system that>has just been installed, nothing even remotely personal should>be on the system.>>If your about to respond by asking, "What about people who>upgrade from XP?" Well I tell you this.... how are you going>to expect one OS to run well by importing files and setting>from the old setup? Everyone knows that a clean install is>THEE only way to go, especially when moving up to a newer OS>altogether. Why import problems? Of course, by no means do I>suggest you don't move all your private files over at some>point... I mean things like registry settings and obsolete XP>application files and components that Vista won't like.>>I just don't get why you people are really taking offense to>WGA... it is nothing like driving a car, nor is it even close>to a gestapo-like lockdown on your house. If it were>seriously deemed illegal, more people would be on your>bandwagon, and lawmakers would have made a case LONG before>now.... but they haven't, simply because your view of WGA is>absurd.>>Seriously... I am not one to be offensive, or take things to>heart... but this thread has shown me what I already knew from>experience. Computer users aren't the smartest... This is>why the first words out of my mouth when I get a call are, "Is>it plugged in? Is it on?" >>As you said, Kev, you don

Yes... my sorry self :( oh boy... am I depressed now... oh wait, maybe I can't get depressed because I'm not human...Don't try to save me dude, I spend my time evaluating things for myself so I'm pretty well off in that respect. I wish life were so easy that you could just read and learn everything from the web as some people seem to do.I just wish I were human like you... so I could have an opinion too.

>Yes... my sorry self :( oh boy... am I depressed now... oh>wait, maybe I can't get depressed because I'm not human...>>Don't try to save me dude, I spend my time evaluating things>for myself so I'm pretty well off in that respect. I wish>life were so easy that you could just read and learn>everything from the web as some people seem to do.>>I just wish I were human like you... so I could have an>opinion too.Kev....Look, I hold no animosity toward you, but you clearly have a lot to learn about life. And when you keep hurling accusations of stupidity toward others who know better than you, you are going to get some flak in return. You give every indication that you are very young

No need to hunt after every rumour. Just don't waste your time reading all the ones that go Rah Rah....because you'll only learn what are considered the "good" parts. I really don't care whether you think Vista is the be-all end-all or not....none of my business. But if you're going to use your intellect and computer knowledge to advise another about a product, don't you agree that the person asking should be armed with _ALL_ the facts; both good and bad?Here's another link whereby Steve Gibson of GRC and Leo Laporte of Tech TV discuss a previous meeting with Peter Gutmann, the author of the piece whose link I posted previously.http://www.grc.com/SecurityNow.htmWhen the page opens, click on the applicable medium you wish for the topic numbered 75, called Vista DRM Wrap-Up & Announcing