Anybody know of a reliable place to get a high end PC tower with DDR3 setup correctly with the hardware a la Nick N? There must be some flight sim enthusiasts out there like me who don't know much about all the hardware, we just want a solution that works without having to know all the nuances of the system itself. Or is this a situation where if you want that type of setup you just have to learn it and do it and put it together yourself? Any help would be appreciated.Incisal Flyer

This is a do it yourself situationNo company is going to build something commercially and overclock it, especially in the way I have presented.

Could be a business opportunity out there for someone...Gary

>That is why I was trying to explain in my presentation it is>very difficult to call a frame number a performance value>unless you know what is missing on the screen, and/or how>fast/slow it was rendered.OK, then perhaps you and Sam are really talking about two different things. From what I am reading, it seems Sam's portrayal of the FSB is as that of a passive conduit: if the maximum data the CPU can pass to the FSB is less than the *carry capacity of the FSB, then there will be no issues. It seems what Nick is proposing is more that there are timing issues that may come into play, and that at less than optimal timings (and bandwidths), the FSB may not be in a ready state, as it were, when data from the CPU is attempting to be fed into the FSB. Does this sound close guys?I will be installing FSX soon, in Vista 64. When it is tricked out properly, perhaps I can set up the exact scenario Nick, and see how the visuals and performance stack up. OK, what are the MUST HAVE add-ons to enhance visuals without total ruination of performance!?? So far, it seems SP1 is critical, SP2 is maybe not a good idea. What scenery/texure addons are best?Noel

Yea, I like it. That last 1% is always the toughest to get. Just for fun, I set my poor ol' DDR800 to 960. Those patriot sticks really run. My P5K actually uses the term "Performance Level" to set tRD. It's interesting watch the board auto-set different tRDs choices for various ram speed settings. It presets 6,7 and 8 for a 960mhz ram speed. Right now I'm using a 7 tRD and the system seems pretty happy. But ya know, honestly, I can't see it. I'm really not interested in 20 vs 21.5 FPS on a FS benchmark run. Unless I can see a significant improvement above my 15FPS on a PMDG 744 run down my favorite Sadde6 STAR into LAX, one more notch of slider doesn't mean much to me. The 50FPS I get from my P51 cranking runs down the Grand Canyon is fine. Now if they would just let me shoot something. Guess there's always LOMAC. On the other hand, I'm in the process of rearranging my entire living room. Pictures are off the wall and I'm thinking about tearing out the fireplace. I Know I can tighten my stereo's spacial clarity on that dang snare drum snap that's just keeps mushing around behind my favorite Stan Kenton tune. Now that'd be massive . . . I don't care Who can't hear it!(and BTW, this tech forum has come a long way. It's been a joy to watch.)

If you handle the benchmarks and the tests, I will handle the BIOS :)Its really not that hard to accomplish. The 2 most important purchases are the motherboard with its BIOS access, and, the right memory. If the memory product is designed to allow the CAS and voltage changes, its only a matter of setup and a bit of fine tuning.In example,.. if a user were to spend the money on DDR3 2000 @ CAS8, this memory will easily clock down to CAS6-7 @ 1600-1800 which at the correct FSB/STRAP places the system in a very high performance tRD range. It would be the same as if I could clock that old Kingston memory I currently have to 1600 from 1440 where it is now, effectively lowering tRD to 5-6. It would represent another major boost to the P35 system.Its the same with DDR2. Just because the memory is rated 4-4-4-10 @ 1200 does not mean the user runs it there. It can also be clocked down in order to push tRD lower however the bandwidth reduction would need to be considered a bit more carefully and not reduce it any more than absolutely necessary to accomplish the goals.The only other hurdle is 3-4GB. Success with larger amounts of memory can get a bit tricky because motherboard manufactures tend to change BIOS memory timing behind the scenes to make sure their products remain stable above 2GB. The more modern motherboards are coming around in that respect. In the last year installing more than 2GB has become a sort of norm at home, but in its infancy. The newer platforms will be better designed for this. In the past that was reserved for server and special work stations whereby stability was more important than ultra high performance but now they must switch gears and provide both.

When ever you step up memory ability you increase performance so of course there is a difference.here is an old article with a graphic which depicts the differencehttp://www.lostcircuits.com/memory/ddr3/2.shtml

Noel,First of all, bandwidth is bandwidth. Its the width of the range that an electronic signal uses on any given transmission medium. With memory, it represents the amount of data that can be carried from one point to another in a given time period.The CPU speed and FSB can in fact continue to increase. The cap on that increase is defined by several things which we are all aware of, and, it

Hi Nick,As soon as I can get the Asus Rampage Extreme MB - I have a H2O cooled system ready with the following components: * Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 Yorkfield 3.2GHz LGA 775 136W Quad Core Processor Model EU80569XL088NL - OEM 1 Patriot Viper 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PVS34G1600LLK This was the fastest Cas7 ram that was avail in 4GB. Hoping you and others can help me set this up for FSX. I have been waiting for these to be released. I have been using my FX-60 for years now and ready to upgrade. I have an 3870-X2 to use but may switch out to Nvidia if I have problemsThanks,Ted

Sam, please keep in mind, a lower tRD is always best no matter what the other properties are running, however, the effective response will be based on CAS/FSB. If you are running CAS5 at 960 you will see a much greater result @ CAS4 assuming the divider/STRAP is running at 6:5, unfortunately the electronics will not allow a tRD of 5 @ 960. The formula dictates quite clearly its not possible. http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/187216.jpgHowever, just because tRD 5 is not possible, does not mean 6 isn't :)You can use the software MEMSET to make that tRD change in Windows too. If it locks under test, just reboot till you find your lowest stable value. MEMSET will also allow the changes at Windows boot however I would not use that feature unless you are comfotable with it. MEMSET should override the motherboard (i would disable in BIOS if used) however when the right formula is used and the components run by the formula, tRD should follow automatically.CAS4 is best run at 5:4 DDR2 1000 and above, 3:2 DDR2 1200+ for CAS5Try and keep the CAS as low as possible and also try to always maintain a tRAS of tRCD+tRP+2 In your case, even 1T may be a perk.. If you can not maintain a CAS4 perhaps working out a lower mem-speed with tRD and 1T CMD would be better. There is more than one way to skin the cat however the bandwidth is going to be limited no matter what you do. The goal would be to raise the efficiency as high as possible on what you have to work with.

TedI can not tell you how well the Patriot memory @ 4GB will play with the Rampage. I have never tested the two together.Right now, DDR3 at 4GB is very new. 2GB is easy to top out and get a massive improvement because it has been out there for over a year, 4GB is still in an infancy phase.At 1600 you want to be running CAS6 if possible on the 2:1 divider and 400FSB, OR better yet, 5:3 divider @ 450-462FSB. After that is accomplished, the CPU multiplier is raised to the highest stable GHz point. If that

>Nick N,>>You are da

ahhhh, yea. I'll get right on it, right after I finish up the mod of my my acoustic "stage." I really think that fireplace has gotta go . . .

>>The only other hurdle is 3-4GB. Success with larger amounts of>memory can get a bit tricky because motherboard manufactures>tend to change BIOS memory timing behind the scenes to make>sure their products remain stable above 2GB. The more modern>motherboards are coming around in that respect. Would you say the X38 chipset boards are all right in this respect? Or should one be ideally aiming for an X48 board? Or is either one sufficient?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

Nick,You make compelling arguments, plus the screenshots are quite obviously different. Would it be worth getting the best DDR2 for this mainboard which only supports DDR2? From what you are saying, I will not be seeing the sort of performance or as you say visual pleasure that I had hoped, even with DDR2 optimized.I definitely will try running FSX on the current rig and just see how it performs. Perhaps it will be adequate for my needs. I may have an opportunity to sell my mainboard and memory and move to a DDR3 system. I think one important variable is how much demand one puts on the system. By dialing back a few variables, I'm guessing one can achieve very excellent performance and visuals, even if AI and a few others are notched back a peg. I don't need to run everything fully maxed. For example, I PREFER one notch left on autogen density in FS9 cuz it looks better to me, less cluttered. Also, I think you also suggesting ANY 8GB system will have problems as far as optimization and performance goes.One thing I will test is how this machine runs FSX at say 3.0GHz, vs 4.3Ghz. I'm betting on the latter being grossly superior to the former, despite your comments re CPU clock speed. I guess I'll see!QX9650 w/ Retail HSF|8GB Muskin PC-6400|ASUS P5E|EVGA 8800GT @700|Seagate SATA 2 x 4|Seagate Cheetah 15K.x|XP Pro|Vista 64--soon to be installed