So, Why AM I Having Trouble Now With ATI and Clouds?

[Chuck_B 2]

I've been using an ATI 1950x in a Dell Dimension e520 (6520? dual core) for the past year and have never had a problem with cloud rendering. I'm running FS2004 - NOT FSX. But now I have a new build and it seems ATI just isn't cutting the mustard any more. Has ATI done something to their drivers lately? Is my new E8500 processor just pushing too much info to the video card now and because I had a lesser system in the past it never mattered? Or am I just overestimating ATIs capabilities now?I put in a brand new Visiontek HD3870X2 OC Edition in my new build last night (specs below) and as soon as Active Sky loaded up the mostly cloudy conditions at KBOS (using low res, DXT3 clouds from Flight Environment Pro) BAM! Flashing, colorful lines all across my screen again. Didn't happen until AS/FE clouds loaded up. No crossfire -- I had to disable it in order to run all 3 monitors, and tried running the card both with all 3 mons plugged directly into the heads on the card without the Matrox Dual Head to Go, and then using only 2 heads and the 2HTG - all monitors are VGA for now.I'm back to the nVidia 8800 GTX, and it's running really well but I'm still not convinced nVidia/nHancer handles AA as well as ATI has for me in the past, even with all the new nHancer tweaks and gyrations. Before I return the 3870x2 for a full refund I would like to make sure I've given it a fair chance -- it is an awesome card. I've read most of the other threads here regarding this, mainly Ray Proudfoot's posts here and in the Active Sky forum, but they seem to be mostly about FSX.Thank you, folks. Just wondering if someone has any thoughts before I call UPS.

[tf51d 284]

I've seen other reports about ATI's HD3870 cards having performance issues with clouds, so I'm not surprised. My last ATI card(s) were X1950XTX Xfires in my previous system. They worked very well in FSX. My system now came with a 8800GT, which also performed well, and I just upgraded to a 9800GTX which is even better!!Edit: Just a thought, when I had issues with my X1950XTX's it usually turned out to be the Catalyst AI setting. Try reducing or turning off this option!!

[McCrash 3]

I have this Visiontek HD3870X2 OC Edition card and it runs just as good as my BFG 9800 GTX OCXE. They both handle clouds the same as far as I can tell. The ATI card seems to have slightly better graphics quality. Could the problem have something to do with AS? The ATI driver releases 8.3 and 8.4 work ok with my ATI card. AND the ATI drivers don't hang the fsx menu item selections.I would try different drivers and then if necessary remove AS and see how the card acts. Also when changing video cards or driver releases I delete the fsx.cfg file and let it get re-created.Oh, I am using FSX SP2 on Windows XP.

[Chuck_B 2]

Thanks for your suggestions -- I actually have Active Sky running on a client machine so all it's doing is loading weather and clouds. I'd really rather not get rid of ActiveSky.The card works fine if I use a preset weather scenario, but the nVidia 8800 GTX has no problems whatsoever with Active Sky.

[sargeski 16]

Chuck,It makes no difference if your weather is being injected by an outside program or FSX or you are using a predefined weather scenario. The 3870X2 cannot handle clouds and ATI has no answers. I too bought one of these cards to replace an 8800GTX and have returned to the 8800GTX (as have many others). Try to fly in any heavy cloud environment with the 3870X2 and you are going to experience a massive loss in FPS. Another reason I also decided to give up on the 3870X2 is that it has a very hard time maintaining a locked framerate and FPS is constantly bouncing around. Where as the 8800GTX has no problems remaining locked at 24 or 30 FPS.Have a read through this thread:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=39036&page=We have also had many other discussions in various threads regarding the 3870X2's inability to handle clouds and the fact that it quite simple cannot even begin to compare performance wise to an 8800GTX when used in FSX.

[Chuck_B 2]

My problem isn't a simple FPS performance issue. The card flashes colorful lines on and off intermittently -- I thought it was an autogen corruption at first, or maybe a power issue.

[sargeski 16]

>My problem isn't a simple FPS performance issue. The card>flashes colorful lines on and off intermittently -- I thought>it was an autogen corruption at first, or maybe a power issue.> Are you sure its not artifacting caused by a faulty card or heat? I use ASX, ASG, with FEX and never experienced what you are describing with the 3870X2. Poor FSX performance most definitely but never graphics corruption what so ever.It's very possible that your factory overclocked card may not be able to handle the factory overclock coupled with FSX.

[Chuck_B 2]

THAT'S my problem . . . I have NO idea what the problem is. It's not a faulty card (I've had 3- yes three! --in there), I'm pretty sure it's not heat because it's fine until the AS clouds come in and I do that at start up.It's almost like there's too much to render -- but I can't fathom that that's true because 1) look at my specs, and 2) I've never seen this behavior before from an ATI card, and 3) the GeGorce card has no problems whatsoever. I'm thinking about another fresh install today, then I'm going to look at some case coolers and maybe a super 1000W+ power supply, but I'm at my wits end here. ATI handles AA so much better than nVidia, but I can't have this technicolor light show going off on take off and landing.Could my motherboard need tweaking?? Kind of out of my league on that one. This is all so weird. This is where it all started -- right after I found someone who actually had an e8500 in stock. Me and my bright ideas.<< http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=38853&page= >>

[Ray Proudfoot 8,951]

Hi Chuck,I'm sorry to hear of your 3870X2 problems. I never encountered any issues at all with clouds (or anything else) in FS9 with that card. Frame rates were 50+ even with heavy cloud using AS6 cloud textures - much easier on performance.Firstly, what drivers are you using and what AA and AF settings do you have? Whilst not the best vehicle to adjust settings CCC will do until you have sorted the mess.When I get problems like this I always revert to default settings as much as possible. If you can easily switch back to default clouds then do so. Also, don't overclock anything including the card. Disable TripleHead software. Just run with a single display for now.Dowmload the 8.4 drivers and run with those. If you haven't done this previously you should wipe all references to nVidia and ATI with Driver Cleaner pro and then reboot to the XP driver. Then install the 8.4 drivers and set AA to 4X and AF to 16X.You can't disable CrossFire - it's built-in to the 3870X2. Come back when you have tried the above.BTW, I spent 3 hours this morning sorting out a AA problem with the 8800GTX so don't think nVidia is the answer to everything. From what I've read it may perform better in clouds but driver issues are horrendous. Something I never had with ATI.Good luck!

[Chuck_B 2]

Thanks for coming in on this, Ray. I've been watching your threads about this card both here and in the ActiveSky forums -- they've been extremely informative.>> so don't think nVidia is the answer to everything. OMG, no -- I left nVidia early last year. When it comes to multi-mon, ATI is the way to go. That's why I'm so frustrated -- there's no place to go now.I will do everything you suggest and report back -- except give up the multi mons -- I just can't bring myself do that. (Forgive me, I am old and weak.) With the 3870x2, I don't need the 2HTG so that will be off, and I just can't believe that this rig can't handle 3 monitors when my old 1950x Pro or even the 1350 could. Don't you agree? The flashing only happens on one monitor at a time never spanning monitors, and I've never seen anything like it -- not on my e6520 (?) or even my old Celeron, but I just got a quick flash of the problem running the nVidia card! So it's back to stripped down scenery and reinstall one at a time for today.I'm not sure if you guys saw in my original post but I'm only running FS9 -- not FSX -- albeit a really loaded FS9, so the FSX issues are also eliminated.I built this box myself and there's not a lot of fluff on it as far as hardware, so there was really no place for me to screw up.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,951]

Hi Chuck,<>It's been a while since I had MM with FS. I use networked computers one of which uses MM but my FS PC is a single 24" display so I've no experience of MM with current cards.<>I was only suggesting you disable them temporarily until the problem was solved but if you're sure it has no bearing on it then fine.<>Yes, it's more than capable. Actually from your description I;m prety certain it's just the AA/AF and other settings that are causing the problem. I had some weird FS screens this morning and it was purely down to those settings.I saw your original post but didn't read it all. Incorrect AA/AF etc. settings will cause problems with either version.I'm sure your hardware is fine. I also built my system and any problems have been software related - not hardware, apart from the poor cloud performance in FSX with the 3870X2 but that's not relevant here.Your system should run anything you can throw at it as far as FS9 is concerned.

[Chuck_B 2]

Ray (and others here): This is highly preliminary, but I the patient seems to be breathing on it's own. Preliminary diagnosis? I suspect a corrupted install of Ultimate Terrain.After spending most of Sunday tweaking ATI's CCC, AA, AI, etc. with little or no positive results, I decided I had to once again start from scratch. I made an image of my C: drive as back-up, and then uninstalled all my addons and then FS9 itself, deleting any remaining and possibly offending folders. I've just completed a step by step reinstall, adding only my "minimally" required addons (the ones I WON'T fly without) and I have a heartbeat. I was still rather aggressive, and ended up copying my FSUIPC.ini file, Aircraft, Gauges, Sound, and Effects folders from my old (damaged?) image copy, and simply pasted them into the new FS9 folder instead of actually reinstalling them all, and it seems to have worked out ok for now. I also passed on an airline by airline re-install and just "restored" all my World of AI from a backup file I had made on Saturday.So, on the main box I'm currently now running: FS9, FSPassengers, FSNavigator, FSUIPC 3.81 (Registered Version), AutoSave, and I just reinstalled Ultimate Terrain USA. On my WideClient box I'm running ActiveSky 6.5 and Radar Contact v4. Assuming my full 1 hour flight tonight from (George Grimshaw's) KBOS to (the default) KPHL goes ok and I see no colorful flashing distortions, I'll install QLRP4UT tomorrow and my other FlyTampa Airports and then probably stop until the weekend and let every thing get nice and 'seated'. If I can keep everything stable, I'll then be able go back to evaluating the merits of the ATI card vs the 8800 GTS. (Being the pessimist I am, though, I suspect this is not finished.)But I will say this: Man it's gorgeous up here! :-jumpy

[Guest D17S]

After all this, I really don't think any of this has been hardware related. Modern hardware (ATI or Nvidia) will work just fine if given a sentient software environment in which to do that work. There's a guy that specializes in stabilizing just these kinds of uber-loaded FS setups. A thread is going next door in the FSX forum. Might pay to check it out. Could be the best hour of O/T you ever spent.

[McCrash 3]

>I have this Visiontek HD3870X2 OC Edition card and it runs>just as good as my BFG 9800 GTX OCXE. They both handle clouds>the same as far as I can tell. The ATI card seems to have>slightly better graphics quality. Could the problem have>something to do with AS? The ATI driver releases 8.3 and 8.4>work ok with my ATI card. AND the ATI drivers don't hang the>fsx menu item selections.>>I would try different drivers and then if necessary remove AS>and see how the card acts. Also when changing video cards or>driver releases I delete the fsx.cfg file and let it get>re-created.>>Oh, I am using FSX SP2 on Windows XP.Woops, it's not the X2.

[Chuck_B 2]

>>After all this, I really don't think any of this has been hardware related. Me too, but like I said, I'm not convinced yet. 2 one hour flights does not a solution make and this has been a major pain in the arse.The ferocity and sporadic nature of these distortions on a system with my specs make it unclear whether this is truly a software issue or a hardware one. That's part of the problem with these new "hardware forum" rules where these type of issues are so quickly moved from the main FS9 forum to the H/W forum so quickly by the moderators.Considering the "upgrade" I've made in all hardware compnents, as well as the downgrade in installed add-on software from my piddly old Dell Dimenson which never had these problems, it's still unclear yet whether UT is the ultimate culprit. Addon softwarewise, this new machine is a LOT cleaner than my old one, and it doesn't make sense that it can't handle what was on the old one -- and more.>>Could be the best hour of O/T you ever spent.I've already thought about that and been in touch with him -- his initial correspondence said 4 to 5 hours, and that's a healthy chunk of time to block out, but I may still go for it, for sure.Thanks for everyone's help! As I said, I don't think this is over yet, and I'll keep this thread updated if need be. I won't bother anyone unless things get bad again.Thanks again.