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Guest UlfB

>The best video card, even today, does little to nothing to>improve low-end FPS scenarios with the FS engine. Even your>system, which was very impressive at FS release, would have>easily pulled sub-10 FPS in the NY area at default high>settings. Addons have only lowered this figure, even with SP 1>and 2 heartstarts for the product. I hope FSXI runs much>better out the box for high end hardware of the day. >>GaryHi Gary,I'm not talking about running with maxed out sliders. I'm talking about being able to run FSX and enjoy it. Compared to FS9 FSX is much more enjoyable to me with my hardware. If I had a low end pc, FSX wouldn't be as enjoyable as FS9. I'm not a member of the part of this community that runs FSX with sliders maxed out and complain about how bad FSX performs. I enjoy it with sliders set in the way I wan't with a smooth flight without blurries.No time during my use of FS9 was I able to max out the sliders. The first time I could do that, was after building my present pc. But then I had started flying FSX ;-)Ulf BCore2Duo X6800 3.3GHz4GB RAM Corsair XMS2-8500C5BFG 8800GTX, Creative SB X-FiFSX Acc/SP2, Vista 32

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Guest SoarPics

...it is pretty clear that the marketing people have completely taken control of this industry (and others), to the point at which it is impossible - irresponsible, I would say - to take anything on trust any more (with some laudable exceptions).So very true! The marketing in the computer biz makes used car salesman look like saints....we are likely to see MS adding perhaps one or two extra threads in FS11, probably not in the hardest areas which would make the biggest difference, so that the marketing people can claim that the programme "takes advantage of the latest multicore CPUs" and that "it is the most significant update EVER".Given the fact that programming for true multi-threading is a daunting task I agree that we'll see the top-of-the-line BS from the marketing types anytime a "new" multi-threading app is released.The hardware guys (and us consumers) have been waiting patiently for more than 3 years for the software guys to truly take advantage of those multi-core products... and I suspect we all will be waiting a few more years. Of course, thru it all the marketing guys will be out there doing their thing!

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Ulf,Global high is nowhere near max sliders. I've been running FS9 on max sliders since I first upgraded to an A64 rig, which was well before FSX came out. I can't run FSX anywhere close to max slider even with what I have now and I doubt there will be any magic hardware pills between now and FSXI, so this is about as good as it will get for me with this title. I hope that FSXI is a little less ambitious than FSX was in features department so that hardware does have a chance to catch up next time around.Gary


Ryzen 7 5800X3D | Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB | 32GB 3200MHz RAM | 2TB + 1TB NVME SSD | 2GB SSD | 2GB HDD | Corsair RM850 PSU | 240mm AIO | Buttkicker Gamer 2 | Thrustmaster T.16000M Flight Pack | 75" 4K60 TV | 40" 4K60 TV | Quest 3 | DOF Reality H3 Motion Platform

MSFS @ 4K Ultra DLSS Performance with 2.0x Secondary Scaling |  VR VDXR Godlike 80Hz SSW OXRTK @ 4500x4500 Custom FFR CAS 50% | MSFS VR Ultra DLSS Performance - Windows 11

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Guest UlfB

Gary,I'm sorry that you can't enjoy FSX with your hardware.Ulf BCore2Duo X6800 3.3GHz4GB RAM Corsair XMS2-8500C5BFG 8800GTX, Creative SB X-FiFSX Acc/SP2, Vista 32

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Ulf,I do enjoy FSX, but only for VFR flying in more remote areas and the missions. FS9 covers the rest for now.Gary


Ryzen 7 5800X3D | Gigabyte RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB | 32GB 3200MHz RAM | 2TB + 1TB NVME SSD | 2GB SSD | 2GB HDD | Corsair RM850 PSU | 240mm AIO | Buttkicker Gamer 2 | Thrustmaster T.16000M Flight Pack | 75" 4K60 TV | 40" 4K60 TV | Quest 3 | DOF Reality H3 Motion Platform

MSFS @ 4K Ultra DLSS Performance with 2.0x Secondary Scaling |  VR VDXR Godlike 80Hz SSW OXRTK @ 4500x4500 Custom FFR CAS 50% | MSFS VR Ultra DLSS Performance - Windows 11

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>So will everyone else. I'm back to FS9 too. Something's gotta>give. Ahh, the irony of it all, from my point of view. I was a very happy camper, even before memory overclocking commenced. Everything worked fine. FSX perf was, pleasantly, good 'nuf. Sam's recommendations, from memory, to HDD's, were good 'nuf. Then, I began following Guru Nick's arguments in favor of optimized memory & system. Dissatisfaction ensued. Not really knowing the potential consequences, we over did a good thing, apparently. ("apparently" is the closest anyone without electronic testing/measuring capability can possibly surmise when it comes to what went wrong when).I am now typing away on a cripped, refurbed P5E. I've got highest end parts OTW. I have some $$ to do this with, so it won't signficantly affect my financial picture, even if I decide to make a frisby out of the soon to arrive P5E3-Premium WiFi. I'm fortunate in this area. Plus I don't any other very pricey hobbies, so it's really chump change, tho I've always sought out good values in the past on PC stuff. In the past . . .Here's the amazing irony: I'm finding very recently . . . FSX to be not as engaging as I'd initially hoped. ASX and the low lying vis layer just looks . . . awful to me. I have to STOP ASX, then remove the lower vis layer. I asked HiFi about putting in a control in ASX to allow users to do this automatically, and got a luke warm response. Reminds me of, I think, of FS2002 if I recall correctly. There are odd things about the ATC window that bother me. Running complex addon aircraft like PMDG 737, will probably be a bummer, I'm guessing, as I haven't tried it, tho Nick swears it's great on his rig(s). He has inside connections with Corsair or something and runs unreleased rarified modules not available to us meer mortals. Plus, he has a nasty way of ALWAYS being one up, one better. If you're doing CALWI of 7.0ns, then "it's not 1T capable" (read: so, it's not good 'nuf). As soon as my 1800Mhz corsairs arrive, the 2000Mhz modules will debut, and you got it, mine won't be quite there. In fact, he just said it yesterday: "in a few months the parts available will be in the zone". I guess, no, I KNOW I'm just a sucker for that authoritative stance he often assumes. Duh!Anyway, for the first time in a while, I fired up FS9. Runs super, even on my crippled P5E. Hmmm, he says. Has it been a fun ride, all this experimentation? Decidedly, NOT! I'd take it all back in a heartbeat for the . . . heartache it has caused me, let alone the time and $$, and all for 8% closer to perfection. I feel, pretty much like a fool for responding to it all. I'm sure you can appreciate why.I do love the visuals with Light Bloom on. Bloom on was not a problem before my meltdown. Hopefully the next set of parts will allow me to go there again. If the next set of parts proves defective, not sure what I'll do. I may leave FSX forever. Noel


Noel

System:  9900K@5.0gHz@1.23v all cores, MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC, Noctua NH-D15S w/ steady supply of 40-60F ambient air intake, Corsair Vengeance 32Gb LPX 3200mHz DDR4, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 2, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM 850W PSU, Win10 Pro, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frametime Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320NX, WT 787X

 

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Guest Nick_N

Being you did not exceed the voltages (I assume) I firmly believe what went wrong was the AC unit blowing directly into the towerToday's technology rooms require precise, stable environments in order for sensitive electronics to operate optimally. Standard comfort air conditioning is ill suited for technology rooms, leading to system shutdowns and component failures. Because precision air conditioning maintains temperature and humidity within a very narrow range, it provides the environmental stability required by sensitive electronic equipment, allowing your business to avoid expensive downtime.http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/VAVR-5UDSLG_R2_EN.pdf

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Guest D17S

Often engaging the context is more productive than the content. I've never understood the content of the memory subsystem optimization drill. What this engagement Did accomplish was to make me Very aware that I did not understand the memory system at all! The first step in any 12 step program is to fully recognize that a problem exists. Boy, I'm there now.The top down approach is really not too helpful, long term. For instance, I use the FIM (Fault isolation manual) at work for troubleshooting. Most often this manual does not address the specific issue I have encountered. If I'm under a time constraint, I use the manual to provide myself a "shopping list" of related components. I then just start mindlessly swapping them in, one after another 'til the problem goes away. This is a top down approach. I have no idea of how the system really works. (To finally draw the analogy) I just keep adjusting Ras and Cas and tThis and tThat until something happens. After years, I can pretty well guess what will do what, still without any real system knowledge.As you might guess, I consider this a faith-based approach, where I Don't understand and leave "all that" to the Creator of this Boeing (or Intel) system. I've described that I'm (most certainly) Not above using this method, but Only as a Last resort! This is the method we've been provided and when system variances begin to occur that are beyond a faith-based practitioner's frame of "common sense," the wheels fall off. The system's behavior was never explainable, but now also becomes unsolvable.At work, that's generally where I come in. The faith-based approach can be cheaper and quicker. However when it hits it's limit, the airplane will just stop. And here we are. Let's start from the bottom and see if we can actually understand this thing. Read over my initial thesis about the FSB. This memory optimization issue will end up being All about coordinating the timing (or synchronization) between the memory's speed and the FSB's speed. Controlling RPM (or clock speed) will only be a method by which an operator can more closely match the timing between the FSB's RPM and the memory's RPM. Can you see why the holy-grain quest for memory speed completely misunderstands this pivotal concept?In the mean time, re-read (I mean get out your green visor and - focus - ) this Anandtech article's description of tRD. They'll blabber on about the attributes of the x48 chip set, Yea bla, bla. We've had plenty that. Try to focus on How the memory controller tries (with massive effort!) to enable tooth engagement from two gears spinning at potentially different RPMs. They call it the "Clock crossing procedure". I got it, I get it and I'll try to concrete an intelligible translation. tRD will be an excellent starting point ( - Please - note I said "starting point!")http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208&p=5Until then, just relax back into simming with the best we mere mortals can achieve. FS9 is Only required for the PMDG airplane . . . and even then, ONLY at low altitudes. My big deal (right now) is to master a hand flown ILS at 1/8 vis and heavy gusts. FS9 is the only platform that allows the fluidity to fly that precisely in the ONLY airplane that provides that precision. So, this is a big deal, to me. Everything else is fine in FSX. Fly the FSX Sitka approach with DX10 and Ultra high settings. Any hi-end rig will do that (even my modest box). The view is Stunning. That's real too.

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Guest JIMJAM

I just read that and think I broke something in my head.Makes String theory seem simple.Some of us are doing good to find the landing gear lever.

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Guest D17S

Ya, it hurt me too the first time through. The basic takeaway is simply this: In AC current, a cycle happens on a very specific time interval, For instance, with our 60 cycle (60Hz) wall power, each of those 60 cycles takes exactly 1/60th or a second to complete. Said another way, each cycle is 1/60th of a second long. Said another way each cycle has a latency of 1/60th of a second because you have to wait 1/60th of a second for the next cycle to come along. From here on out, all we're doing is dealing with this precise, simple concept, abit dealing with much faster AC cycling. We're really gonna wind it up! As the CPS ("Hz" or "Cycles per second") increases, each individual cycle's time length will get shorter and shorter. Once you get this basic idea, the rest is a breeze. Well maybe not a breeze, but at least we'll have a foothold on the cliff! In the computer world we use these AC cycles to move data. It's this "conveyor belt" analogy I've used previously. In the earliest days of computers (?), we had a computer that use a Front side buss running at 60Hz. We wanted to use every single one of these cycles to move data back and forth between the memory sticks and the CPU. However for equally easy to understand reasons (later!) the physics of electricity will not allow us to use every cycle. The memory controller springs into action. The memory controller's job (Northbridge now, Quickpath soon) is to use as many of these FSB cycles as possible . . . . but it - Cannot - use them all. For instance if the memory controller can only use every 12th cycle, this will Really slow things down. The memory controller has to wait through 12 cycles before it can slam a data bit aboard the FSB express. It had to wait through 12 cycles X 1/60th of a second per cycle, or .2 seconds between data loads. Or said in 'computerize,' our memory has a "latency" of .2 seconds (Note: this is only one of the factors that slows down this Memory < > FSB transfer process . . . but it's a BiGGiE).This mysterious "tRD" is the simply the number of FSB alternating current (AC) cycles the memory controller must skip before it can slam a data bit aboard the FSB express. (Geeze, How complicated did they want to make this?!) Now you do the math. How long is each AC cycle at 400Mhz? Got it? Now if I have a tRD of 12, what's my latency? (How long is an AC cycle at 400Mhz X 12). Now, if I could reduce my tRD to 6, might that not achieve a Bigger improvement than trying to smoke a CPU/FSB at a 500 FSB and running ram modules to 2000Mhz? But faster should be better? Not necessarily, At All! The better we can sync the memory and the FSB's RPM, the better chance we have to get those transfers done more often. Slowing those wild men down - might just - work better! One . . . or the other . . or both? Woah! Now we're into it. Little steps. We'll do that next.(edit: Why here? We're hiding out!)

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>I just read that and think I broke something in my head.>Makes String theory seem simple.>Some of us are doing good to find the landing gear lever.ROFLOL! Thank you for that JimJam! Eased my mind!Noel


Noel

System:  9900K@5.0gHz@1.23v all cores, MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC, Noctua NH-D15S w/ steady supply of 40-60F ambient air intake, Corsair Vengeance 32Gb LPX 3200mHz DDR4, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 2, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM 850W PSU, Win10 Pro, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frametime Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320NX, WT 787X

 

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>>>Being you did not exceed the voltages (I assume) I firmly>believe what went wrong was the AC unit blowing directly into>the towerI think that is a possibility, but not a probability. I'm going with my 4 years of experience. You also have to realize the FLOW RATE is not high, and the incoming temperature is not that low. With low flow rate static is really not happening especially thru large metal pipes.I was obviously naive about trying this experiment back when, but truly, I have to go with the FOUR straight years of trouble free cooling over papers about how large amounts of mission critical data should be maximally protected with a stable environment. I have no mission critical data to protect for starters. Nick, with all due respect, you seem to have a handy way of disregarding, or at least not responding to, a very reasonable test of 2 different machines, different locales, 2 years of daily use without a hitch. All it is, Nick, is cool air blowing no faster than other decent internal fan systems. This is LOW FLOW, COOL AIR x FOUR YEARS with no component failure, excellent performance. Ignore it if you will, but I think it's way more relevant to this particular application than the information in the articles you linked.Temperature flucutations seem potentially troublesome though. But again, components endure considerable temperature fluctuations even with less robust cooling. And the very freq and rapid CPU fluctuations between idle and load states. I looked up the max rate of change in temp of my SCSI's and my cooling solution does not exceed this.If I'd witnessed any unusual or frequent hardware component failures in the past 2 years I would have to say sure, it's quite possible or maybe even probable this could have, rather serendipitously, caused the failure after the 1200Mhz attempt.Thanks for sharing your opinion but I doubt that was the issue Nick.


Noel

System:  9900K@5.0gHz@1.23v all cores, MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC, Noctua NH-D15S w/ steady supply of 40-60F ambient air intake, Corsair Vengeance 32Gb LPX 3200mHz DDR4, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 2, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM 850W PSU, Win10 Pro, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frametime Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320NX, WT 787X

 

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"With that, we can finally see how this consideration comes full circle - the lower the TRD, the higher the memory read performance and vice versa. This change in TRD also drives vMCH, with lower values requiring substantially more voltage than the more "relaxed" (higher) values. We were able to push our ASUS Rampage Formula to a very impressive 450MHz FSB using a tRD of 5, which correlates to a TRD of about 11.1 ns. Because this required about 1.60V vMCH, for all intents and purposes we would consider this to be the practical limit of scaling, at least with conventional cooling. Above this voltage, we find that the X48 quickly turns into a little furnace during periods of prolonged load. Our recommendation is the liberal use of extra cooling capacity if you feel the need to push any further."I hope to run my next platform at 410 to 425 depending on my stomach primarily. I'd like to keep vMCH below 1.60 . . .And this snippet was my P5E's 4x1Gb OCZ's running at the same spec, only at 1050Mhz CAS 4:In the end we decided to run our Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650 at a final FSB of 400MHz with a multiplier of 10.0x at an even 4GHz. Our 4x1GB of OCZ DDR2 PC2-8000 Platinum Extreme Edition memory was set to run at DDR2-1000 (5:4) CAS 4 with a tRD of 5. Ultimately, the ASUS Rampage Formula provided us the ability to build a well-tuned system. Without question, ASUS' addition of BIOS options for direct tRD manipulation was instrumental to our successful overclock. When paired with top-end GPUs from either ATI or NVIDIA, our rig becomes a formidable gaming platform for enjoying today's titles and beyond.


Noel

System:  9900K@5.0gHz@1.23v all cores, MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC, Noctua NH-D15S w/ steady supply of 40-60F ambient air intake, Corsair Vengeance 32Gb LPX 3200mHz DDR4, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 2, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM 850W PSU, Win10 Pro, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frametime Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320NX, WT 787X

 

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Guest D17S

Good. Let's start actually understanding this stuff. From the bottom, up. Small steps. I'm not much more than a paragraph beyond anyone else. If my rhyme ever appears to be without reason, challenge it.

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>Good. Let's start actually understanding this stuff. From the>bottom, up. Small steps. I'm not much more than a paragraph>beyond anyone else. If my rhyme ever appears to be without>reason, challenge it. Sam, you have a great spirit. Thanks to you for your insights, always delivered in stylish prose.I definitely only have the very bits n pieces of it. But there are some generalities, and there are some hit and miss too, some luck of the draw. It is a reality of manufacturing that there is variance of performance capacity between samples of the same part. Or so it seems from what I read. It fits too with binning, etc.I'm hoping to be able to set up my next attempt that is both stable (like the other 4 I built and used for many years each), and by using appropriate control over voltages and temps primarily, durable. No more bleeding edge thank you. One thing I don't have a sense for. Do you have ANY idea what a safe and adequate increase in vMCH might be? Anand's example was 1.61 I believe. My general principle is: not more than 10% increase in volts. This comes from a guess one would need that sort of headroom to allow for variance in manufacuring. I wonder what vMCH is both safe and effective for an FSB of 410. Leave it on AUTO? I'm thinking 410 if CAS 7 is doable, which give CALWI and also considerable bandwidth increase. But again, right now it's a total guess about what sort of vMCH change is needed to supply adequate current to the NB to keep it happy. I know the BIOS tells you over 1.75 needs better cooling. And after 1.41, it turns from yllw text to pink text! As I had nothing better to go on, I stopped at 1.41v. Oy!


Noel

System:  9900K@5.0gHz@1.23v all cores, MSI MPG Z390M GAMING EDGE AC, Noctua NH-D15S w/ steady supply of 40-60F ambient air intake, Corsair Vengeance 32Gb LPX 3200mHz DDR4, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 2, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM 850W PSU, Win10 Pro, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frametime Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320NX, WT 787X

 

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