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Guest simjunkie

Q9650 & chance at 4GHz vs Q6600 @ 3.6GHz

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Guest Nick_N

You can.. although I would always boot a 0/DISABLED Transaction Booster value (tRD) and let Memset do the work but if you have the rest available in the BIOS you can set those in the BIOS if you wish. howeverMost clockers prefer such settings be made in Windows after the initial boot. Many times... especially with tRD, you will find the boot is unstable but once in Windows not a hiccup is seen in the system. This can be a result of several things which occur during Windows initialization to the hardware and BIOS.Many BIOS

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Guest simjunkie

Ok, thanks for answering that. See ya! :)-jk

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Guest Nick_N

>Ok, thanks for answering that. See ya! :)>No problem.. you got'sta know what it is you are doing to make good clocking decisions. tRFC can be increased a tad over raising vcore, NB or screwing with other settings such as clock skew which can potentially have a more profound impact on a system over time than raising tRFC a touch. Once you have a grasp of where the most impact comes from with the less cost it helps quite a bit.raising tRFC is one of those areas.In example.. in the case where a clock wants to be less than 450FSB we know the BIOS shifts gears under 450 so instead of dropping to 445 we increase tREF to the highest T value and raise tRFC a touch which then gives us a stable 450 with no loss in perf.. you are attacking the stability area to maintain 450 and compensating for the loss (increase) in tRFC with more dataflow per cycle or tREFIn the case where stability is not an issue and you do not move tREF or even lower it,.. you are simply getting more perf per clock out of the tweaking..

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Guest simjunkie

Update: I set the highest tREF in Memset. Applied, saved, rebooted, verified settings. and got a BSOD after around 1 hour of Prime95 blend test. So should I add 5-10 clocks to the tRFC?-jk

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Guest Nick_N

Did you verify that with a reboot and another pass?Tell ya what.. See if its unstable in FSX.. nice long flightYes, you can raise tRFC .. do it in 5's not 10's If you have a bit of room in your top end CPU temp give vcore a touch more and see if its stable.. if not then give NB a touch more v instead. one then the other then both..you can still try a bit of tRFC but not above 15+ what you are nowIf you are still seeing some issues reset back and probably a bit of VTT and GTL+ may be in order. NO higher than 1.3v on VTT.. try 1.2 firstCPU GTL is typcially somewhere in the 60x range, no lower than 61 and no higher than 67... NB typically wants 61xIf that fails the Skew is the next step.. see me before messing with that though

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Guest simjunkie

Forgot to memtion that tRFC is 60. I'll try 65-70. I also have room to bump vcore, and NB reads 1.55v (BIOS HW monitor) so I might be able to add a tick to that as well. VTT reads 1.26(I haven't tried to minimize VTT yet so I don't know if it's high or low right now, but I won't go over 1.3) Thanks Nick, I'll work on those settings. As an aside, Everest really showed an improvement when I maxed out tREF. Mem read/write went up, latentcy when down, and L2 cache latency went down too. -jk

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Guest simjunkie

Success! All I did was raise vcore a notch and the blend test ran almost 10 hr before I stopped it, no errors. Now at 1.28 vcore (cpuz 100% load), 1.55 NB, 1.26 VTT, tRFC 60, tREF 16383T, tRD7. It just keeps gettin better.-jk

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Guest Nick_N

Always best to do the basics first... Vcore and NB voltageIf you can't get it stable on those 2 changes within temp specs then and only then start looking at the other settings I mentioned. Since you have a REAL motherboard the odds are you wont have to mess with other settings which are designed for people who refuse to spend the money on the REAL motherbboard and memory... and who then run around telling everyone tweaking doesnt work cause they can't get it to run any better on their budget parts :-hah

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>Always best to do the basics first... Vcore and NB voltage>>If you can't get it stable on those 2 changes within temp>specs then and only then start looking at the other settings I>mentioned. Since you have a REAL motherboard the odds are you>wont have to mess with other settings which are designed for>people who refuse to spend the money on the REAL motherbboard>and memory... and who then run around telling everyone>tweaking doesnt work cause they can't get it to run any better>on their budget parts :-hah I just got a Q9650 on an evga 790i Ultra SLI along with 4GB DDR3 1800. I am just learning to overclock. This thread is, for the most part, way over my head, but I've gotten up to 3.6 GHz just by changing the FSB with everything else on AUTO, but I still have the occasional failures-to-boot. I know the max Vcore and the max memory voltage, but where do I find the max NB value? You seem to say I have to adjust that value when I start adjusting Vcore. I don't want to exceed any critical values while I'm learning so I'm trying all this in baby steps. This thread also seems to say I won't "destroy" anything if I keep voltages (and thus temperatures) under control. Obviously, as a rookie at this, blowing up my expensive new toy is definitely on my mind.Jeff

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Guest simjunkie

Hi Jeff, congrats on your new setup. Looks like a good one. In fact, I'm jealous of the DDR3.You want to set most of your voltages to manual and find the lowest stable values. You'll need a HW monitor that shows what the values are-that should be in the BIOS but use something else too. Download cpu-z to read vcore. I also use Everest to read other voltages. Coretemp and Realtemp are good cpu temperature monitors. You'll need to learn to use cpu and memory stress tests like Prime95 and memtest86+ to make sure your system is stable. Most of these are freeware (except Everest). Your goal is to get 9x450 FSB (4.05GHz). That'll perfectly match your memory speed and will be the best use of that chip. But first I would get your system stable at 9x400 (3.6GHZ). Start slow here and work up. Also, get a good air cooler before you start overclocking.Here's what's critical:1) Don't ever set vcore higher than 1.36v. That's Intels max spec. You should be able to get over 4GHz on much less than that-that's how good this chip is!2) Don't ever let core temps get over 72 deg C. under load (stress testing load). That's especially why you need the best air cooler you can find. 3) You should have a FSB termination voltage (VTT) setting in the BIOS. You may need to set that manually to between 1.2v and 1.3v but don't set it any higher than 1.3v if at all possible. If it's on auto make sure it doesn't go over 1.3v.That should keep your CPU happy. #1 and #3 will fry 45nm chips if too high. #2 will fry any chip.There are many memory related settings that I'll only touch on. Especially since I'm not familiar with your board. I think 1.9v is the max for DDR3, check your memory specs and don't go over-you won't need to. I won't take my NB over 1.55v. I think up to 1.6v is safe but you must have good airflow over the heatsinks. Don't let the NB temps get over 50 deg C. You might need close to 1.55v to run at 450 FSB once you get there. At 400 FSB you can leave that setting on auto (but read the voltage in your HW monitor-lower is better).If you can adjust your NB strapping then use the 333 strap. For my DDR2 I run the 266 strap at 400FSB and the 333 strap at 450FSB. Voltage setting other than what I mentioned can be left on auto for now. Test your system by running stability tests for at least 12 hours. That means a 12 hr run without errors or BSOD or lockup. Monitor temps and voltages during testing.Remember, start off slow at 400FSB and 3.6GHz. Get it stable there at the lowest vcore needed. With the Q9650, the board is gonna be the trick. The CPU should run 4GHZ without breaking a sweat.Cheers!-jk

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Guest simjunkie

Hi Jeff,I'll help as much as I can but this is DDR3 overclocking and nVidia MB and I don't know a lot about that (Nick does though). Make sure to check your board's BIOS version and make sure there aren't any issues with that version and the E0 Q9650 or your memory type. Make sure the memory is running at it's spec'd timings and I would make sure your running 2T on the command rate for now. Also set the tRFC (refresh cycle time) to around 80 or even 90. You will probably need 1.55v on the northbridge to hit 450FSB. Turn off all the cpu power saving features. The speed-stepping, vanderpool, disable spread spectrum, etc.Have you enabled your loadline calibration? That should keep the vcore from dropping so much, if at all. It sounds like it's vcore you need to deal with and if you set 1.28v in the BIOS I can't see why it would overvolt like that in the HW monitors. There must be something going on. Error on the side of caution though and don't push the vcore past that 1.28v BIOS setting until we get it figured out. But do enable the LLC. I haven't seen your temps, what have those been?I'll do some reading this week on the 790 Ultra and quads and see if I can find out anything on similar setups. If we're lucky, Nick might drop by (he's really busy) and he'll have ideas for sure.Here's a thread for the 9650 and DDR3 but with a different board. It might help though.http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...um=1225569427/0-jk

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jkTempuratures are fine (64 deg at max load with OCCT). It's just that what voltage I put into cpu core voltage isn't what it becomes set to. It seems to 'overvolt' (is that a word?) by .08v to 1.1v. I enter 1.28125v and it becomes 1.39v. I enter 1.33125 and it becomes 1.41. (Those are the idle voltages according to all the system monitors I use) If I try to enter a real low number trying to end up with 1.35 or so, the PC won't even boot.Finally, I don't have a load line calibration option on this board. All optional cpu settings have been disabled.Yeah, Nick might have an idea, but we all want him to keep working on GEX E. lolI might try to re-update the BIOS again, maybe something hiccuped last time I tried it.Jeff

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Guest Nick_N

I sent the Nvidia board I tried some time ago back for a refund and never bought another one.. it was unstable, clock limited and a general PITA to deal withNvidia deals with LLC differently than P/X chipset boards. I do not remember the process however enabling LLC is not as simple as changing defined 'Load Line Calibration" setting in the BIOS.Nvidia boards also are known for having FSB 'hole' where the system is unstable between certain frequenciescase in point: http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...?num=1223471904Sorry.. I cant be much help with this one.

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Nick,Last questions on this subject. If I am unable to manually set an accurate CPU Core Voltage, is that most likely a BIOS problem, a motherboard problem, or the chip? The reason I ask is that from all I've read, the Q9650 is a pretty good chip for FSX use with some overclocking. I think even you have written that it is pretty good (for today's technology). If my problem is just the motherboard then the cost of fixing that problem is a whole lot less than getting a new CPU. Isn't the ASUS Striker II Extreme the caparable replacement for the eVGA board?

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