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ebay auction selling freeware aircrafts. Copyright viol

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Hey Barney,The GNU GPL applies only to works you, yourself release under that license! It doesn't, of course, apply to anyone elses work that they released under some different license that they chose.No one would release their work under the GPL license if they didn't agree with its principles and rules (at least, I hope not). If you wrote within your own license that "inclusion on any type of media, CD Rom or other whereby payment is extracted is disallowed", then you didn't release under the GNU GPL - you've created your own separate license (and I'm not talking about you, Barney, here - but anyone). The GNU GPL has its own specific text that clearly states exactly what you can and can't do with that software. If you don't use that text (or a similar Free Software license), you of course can't call your work Free Software then because its not. But what license each author decides to release under is their own choice - and must be followed!This thread has become confusing because there are two separate issues being discussed: the illegal CD a guy is selling on eBay (since few of those authors works he's selling are Free Software licensed under the GNU GPL), and the clarification of a Free Software license *one person* released their work under but didn't quite understand fully - it seems.So to sum up: a user can't "invoke the GNU license" unless an author releases his work *under* that GNU license. I hope that clears this misunderstanding up for you.Take care,Elrond

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Guest eko

Bill Wrote:"I was under the impression that what RedHat was 'selling' was their unique installation program that ties together and configures all the disparate 'pieces of code' that're necessary to get Linux up and running, as well as their continued support services."Sort of. :-) This aspect of it is what "sells" the package, no doubt, and service contracts are their biggest profit margin. But they ARE selling Linux. You can buy a CD from them which has no service contract. Their installation program (rpm) is not unique to them. They developed it originally, and also released it under GPL. So, there are many other Linux installations which use the same exact rpm system to do their installs, and some would say are even more friendly than redhat! The bottom line is, if you take a GPL released program and sell it, you have to also make it available for free, including source code of the original, AND any changes you may have made to it, so that others can benefit from your improvements.

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The CD is was just sold for EUR 24.50 (EUR 18 for the CD plus EUR 3.00 for packing and shipping plus EUR 3,50 for insurance!)The buyer is listed on ebay. Could someone, who is registered at ebay, please send the buyer a message, that he just vasted money for something what he could have had for free and what the seller was not allowed to sell. Maybe the buyer will then take action against this crook.I cannot inform the buyer, as I'm not registered at ebay and I do not want to register there.Wolfgang

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I just had a closer look on this auction. The seller clearly states the the aircraft on his CD are freeware and shareware.As I understand it, this guy does not want the money for the planes, but for the installing programm, waich also comes with the CD. He says the planes are sepearted into cetegoeries and all listed with a picture, you only have to click on the plane and the it will automatically be installed.I'm afraid this is all legal, and nothing can be done against it.Wolfgang

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>I'm afraid this is all legal, and nothing can be done >against it. None of what you wrote makes any difference whatsoever! The sale of CD-R compilations is against eBay's rules!That's the flaming point!eBay should enforce their own rules!

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<"I just had a closer look on this auction. The seller clearly states the the aircraft on his CD are freeware and shareware.As I understand it, this guy does not want the money for the planes, but for the installing programm, waich also comes with the CD. He says the planes are sepearted into cetegoeries and all listed with a picture, you only have to click on the plane and the it will automatically be installed.I'm afraid this is all legal, and nothing can be done against it.">HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY DEFEND THE CROOK?! It it obvious that he has packaged up others' freeware releases, and sold them. Whether he is charging for the 'installer' or for the CD itself is of no consequence here. As Fr. Leaming has had to repeat FAR too many times, HE IS SELLING A COMPILATION, and 'compilations' are forbidden for sale on EBay. What's even more distubing is that 'the crook' has already made 25 Euros off this kind of ludicrous (albeit blatant) THEFT! BAH! :-newburn Being a member of this community is hardly rewarding anymore...

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Its not about defending this chap but rather knowing exactly whats involved. Suppose I dont have internet and want those files..if somebody compiles, cuts a CD and sends me and charges me the cost..is he doing illegal actvity?..if in the eyes of the law he is then all ISPs who charge you for bandwidth when you download these files are also illegal..because they make money out of these freeware aircraft!!He is not charging you for the files, he is charging you for transmission of the files just like an ISP charges you!!

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>HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY DEFEND THE CROOK?!< I don't think Wolfgang was defending that person, but rather stating the obvious. Contrary to public perception, or what the US government and certain Californian judges might think, US law does not apply world wide. The concept of software 'licences' in particular, is ambiguous, to say the least, in most jurisdictions - more often than not to the point that they can just be ignored. What is not ambiguous, however, is the protection of copyright, which is extended by domestic and international laws to any author of an original work.Redistributing such work for profit would be illegal, unless the original author gets to share in that profit. If the profit is made solely from an additional original work (such as the installer), a fee may or may not be payable to the author (depending on the nature of the original work). A piece of work that has originally been made available for free can not generate such a fee.As far as auctioning it on E-Bay is concerned, the seller would have to abide by the auctioneer's conditions, which may be set arbitrarily and are subject to contract law. In this case , the conditions on e-Bay Germany are quite clear thus:http://pages.ebay.de/help/community/png-recordable.html'Selling a collection of freeware or shareware programs on a CD is forbidden'. Therefore, the seller would have appeared to have breached e-Bay Germany's conditions, and it is up to them to decide whether to void their agreement with him or not. And no, the FBI won't be knocking on his door (they've got no jurisdiction in Germany), the German police or prosecutors won't do anything, either - it's purely a contractual matter between the seller and e-Bay, no copyright has been violated, no criminal offence has been committed. It's time that people stopped assuming what the law is supposed to be in their opinion, but started looking at what the law actually IS.Cheers,Gosta. http://hifi.avsim.net/activesky/images/wxrebeta.jpg

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Hi Gosta,"It's time that people stopped assuming what the law is supposed to be in their opinion, but started looking at what the law actually IS."Be carefull what you wish for. If that where the case, there would be little work for lawyers. :)Cheers,BobP :)

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Hi eko,"The bottom line is, if you take a GPL released program and sell it, you have to also make it available for free, including source code of the original, AND any changes you may have made to it, so that others can benefit from your improvements."Thats not quite how it works, but close. Someone who distributes GPL software for a fee has no obligation to *also* provide that software "for free" (as in "without cost"). The fact that the software is GPL'd negates the need for having to provide it without cost! Why? Because everyone is allowed (and encouraged) to make copies of or modify that work they just bought and give those copies or modifications away to their friends, family and community as they see fit (including uploading it to servers such as AVISM for example).Thats exactly why you can download GNU/Linux CD images and burn them for no cost from FTP servers across the world even though you can *also* buy those same physical CDs (with manuals, support, extra services, etc) directly from the GNU/Linux distributor that packaged it. Those "no cost" FTP servers (at least from the end user perspective!) aren't owned or run by the GNU/Linux distributor - they're run by the thousands of individuals and companies that have those resources - and who support GPL ideals! Many, many people who have recieved benefit from "no cost" GPL work like this at some point begin to purchase copies too - so they can support the very developers who provided them all that no cost software. Most distribution companies like Red Hat and Mandrake fund many of those very GPL developers their distribution works are made up of because that too returns benefit to the community that helps them thrive. Its a very, *very* community supportive method of software thinking.The only price requirement that a distributor has under the GPL: if they don't provide the source code directly, they *must* provide it to anyone who asks for it for a minimum term of three years and for no more than the cost of "physically performing source distribution". Because of the GPL license requirements, the distributor *cannot* refuse to provide the source upon request (if it wasn't already included). Beyond that however, they can charge whatever they think they can get for the GPL software or compilation - knowing full well that anyone also has the Freedom mandated under the GPL to copy, modify and give away that work as they too, see fit.Thank you for helping out in this discussion, as I've been having a very hard time connecting to AVSIM the past couple days (only the forum, not the web site). I really appreciate you stepping in and filling the holes as you have.Take care,Elrond

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David,cool down! I do not defend this guy. I just state if it is legal or illegal. Ind I'm afraid according to the german law and the law of many other european countries it is legal, no matter if it is a compilation or not (for the reasons I have stated in my post # 33). And business practices of ebay.de are subject to german law. That's how the laws are - but this does not mean, that I think these laws were good. I'm just realistic.And if you still don't beleive me, that it is not my intension to defend this guy, please read my initial post (# 32). I hope this clarifies your misunderstanding.Wolfgang

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>I don't think Wolfgang was defending that person, but rather stating the obvious. Contrary to public perception, or what the US government and certain Californian judges might think, US law does not apply world wide. >It's time that people stopped assuming what the law is supposed to be in their opinion, but started looking at what the law actually IS.>Cheers,>Gosta.Amen,Wolfgang

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>Ind I'm afraid according to the german law >and the law of many other european countries it is legal, no >matter if it is a compilation or not (for the reasons I have >stated in my post # 33). And business practices of ebay.de >are subject to german law. Wolfgang, since ebay.de has the very same prohibition against the auctioning of CD-R compilations, then I'm simply saying that they - eBay - need to enforce their own rules!Forget what various laws in each country may or may not be, that's a red herring...It is a stated policy of eBay that this type of activity is verbotten!The issue really is that simple: either eBay enforces their own policy, or they are honest enough to state that in practice they don't really give a tinker's dang about their own policies.

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