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Guest RobOlson

Some thoughts on Climbing in Concorde

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I have posted before that momentum equals speed. Well, I found out the hard way that Concorde must gain momentum/speed immediately after takeoff. As I climbed out of JFK, I held at 250kts until 10,000 feet. Then I accelerated to 400kts. After reaching FL260, I hit the reheats and selected MAX CLIMB. Well, I didn't get past FL290 before Concorde began to lose speed (reheats still ablaze). Basically, I maxed out at FL290.However, when I installed the new AIR file, I did a test run. After takeoff, I immediately accelerated to 400kts. Upon reheating at FL260, the plane climbed steadily until FL550. The afterburners were only on for about 10 minutes too. So, I guess that ATC be damned, get the plane to 400kts as soon as possible. I think that holding at 250kts loses some momentum, even though the speed is still there. But, I don't think the plane has enough momentum to get it to Mach 2 at FL550. Unfortunately, you don't find that out until you can't break FL300. Realistically, was Concorde allowed to not adhere to speed limits under 10,000 feet?

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Realistically, was Concorde allowed to not adhere to speed limits under 10,000 feet?>yesand you would not start the climb using max climb without being at 400 ktsyou will find the Vmo (barber pole) starts to increase to 400 kts around 4,500ftJohn PSS SUPPORTsupport@phoenix-simulation.co.ukhttp://www.avsim.com/pss/phoenix.jpg

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Yes, I accelerated to 400kts after 10,000 feet. I actually was able to obtain and maintain that speed up to FL260. I ran into trouble trying to go faster and higher. I figured out that whatever speed I was doing at 5000 feet greatly affected the climb later. Since I thought I was restricted to 250kts, I think that might have killed some momentum. Now, I don't know if this is a limitation to the product, or just plain physics at play.Since Concorde has no speed restriction, I'll try it again by following the barber pole.Just as an aside, since a "barber's pole" is uniquely American, how did that term end up on an English aircraft? :)

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"Just as an aside, since a "barber's pole" is uniquely American, how did that term end up on an English aircraft? :)"Not true the "barbers" pole originates from the UK, It was the symbol of the The Barber-Surgeon Company and continued as the symbol of Barbers when the company split in the 18th century.Simon.(The king of useless information :-) )

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Here's an interesting tidbit. Here in Canada at least, the regs state that speed limits are: "a) below 10000ASL, 250KT :( below 3000AGL within 10NM of a controlled airport, 200KTEXCEPTIONS:A person may operate at an IAS greater than that stated above where the aircraft is being operated: (i) on departure (!!) (ii)in accordance with a special flight ops. certificate (basically an airshow)"Soooo...... This means that, at least in Canada anyways (and I'm pretty sure the U.S. has the same rule) that the Concorde could fly as fast as it wanted (subsonic at leat) at any altitude during departure. It would only have to adhere to speed limits on arrival. Hope that clears some things up!kps: for anyone interested, the quote is from AIP RAC 2.5.2 "Aircraft Speed Limit Order"

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Any aircraft can request an approach or departure speed waiver below 10,000ft from ATC (US). I remember reading this is commonly done with military and special aircraft, conditions permitting.I think you're not nearly as much a problem on departure as you are on approach, since the corridors are usually kept apart. On approach, speed is problematic because it is one element used to control spacing, which itself has to do with the class of aircraft (due to turbulence).

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What was your pitch index set to during the 250 kias climb? I had mine set to 13 degrees, then tried to accelerate to 400 kias without setting the pitch index to 8 degrees and re-engaging the AP. I gradually lost speed until I stalled. I then noted I was trying to reach FL580 at 13 degrees (or greater!)

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