Airbus Pro LOC/APPR function inop................?????

[Guest Hawkeyeted]

OK, I'm REALLY confused and this one has me scratching my head....I have followed the checklists to a "T". Reviewed the manuals three times. I'm absolutely positive I'm doing things in the right order. However, I can not for the life of me get the LOC or APPR functions to turn on. Absolutely nothing happens when I press either button. I'v got the approach page in the FMGC set up correctly and confirmed, ATC assigns the ILS intercept course, I press the ILS button on the glareshield, but I just can't get the LOC or APPR to turn on so as to intercept the localizer beam. I'm curious to know if anyone else has/had this problem? Is it a bug (doesn't seem so, others don't have this problem)? Thanks in advance!Sincerely,Ted Barkley

[Guest vrandar]

Did you check on the RAD NAV page of the MCDU that the ILS freq was showing at LSK3L?

[Guest Hawkeyeted]

>Did you check on the RAD NAV page of the MCDU that the ILS>freq was showing at LSK3L?Yes. That is what has me scratching my head. I've got the FMGC set up correctly. I get ILS needles, I just can't engage the LOC or APPR buttons. When I press them, they don't illuminate.

[Guest streetboy]

>>Did you check on the RAD NAV page of the MCDU that the ILS>>freq was showing at LSK3L?>>>Yes. That is what has me scratching my head. I've got the>FMGC set up correctly. I get ILS needles, I just can't engage>the LOC or APPR buttons. When I press them, they don't>illuminate.Hi Ted,Is the correct ILS info (ID and frequency) shown in the lower left corner of the PFD. If not, then you cannot (as far as I remember) engage neither LOC nor APR.Windows XPPro SP1P4 3.2GHz1GB Kingston PC3200 DDRAMASUS P4C800-E Deluxe MotherBoardASUS V8460 de luxe (Ti4600) graphicsSoundblaster Audigy 2 ZSrgdssoren

[nooon 21]

In my case the LOC button is -usually- INOP untill I enter within the 10 nm circle around the CF.... Then it works.

[mozart 1]

Hawkeyeted,the answer is hidden in nooon's reply. I used to have the same problem until I stumbled over some reply to the same problem on this forum. The solution wasn't clearly spelled out, but here's the trick:- do all the things you do right (select runway into the FMC, press ILS button, prepare APPR mode, engage APPR mode at about 8,500 ft, etc)- in the RAD/NAV panel, check whether or not the right ILS frequency and runway heading show up on the lower left hand corner (I think it's LSK 3L and 4L) - DO NOT TYPE IN OR OTHERWISE MANUALLY ENTER ANY FREQUENCY!!! ONLY TAKE A LOOK!- now, DO NOT DO THE FOLLOWING THING (which I always did and maybe you do the same): DO NOT manually enter the ILS frequency and runway heading into LSK 1L and 2L. I know there is a temptation to do that to capture the ILS as early as possible, but it will screw things up- instead, calmly fly your approach, and you will see that by some magic hand the FMC will by itself swap from whatever VOR frequency was selected to the ILS frequency you are needing. Don't worry, it will do so early enough, you won't miss the intercept- it's only after the FMC has selected the ILS frequency by itself that you press the LOC button. This procedure has always worked for me.To make things simple: during your entire PSS Airbus flight (and this is true for all of PSS' Busses), NEVER EVER FIDDLE with the frequency on the RAD/NAV panel!I hope this helps. I think PSS should put this in the FAQ section, as this question has popped up a zillion times, where there were users that did everything right except that they manually entered the ILS frequency and then couldn't engage the LOC mode. The replies given to them were along the lines of things that they already did right (APPR mode and the like).Let me know if it works

[Guest vrandar]

I agree with Mozart's post with the exception of one thing: when you need to do a full dual a/p autoland you should enter the ILS Freq at LSK1R in the RAF NAV page and then select both autopilots on the FCU.

[Guest Hawkeyeted]

Mozart and all,Thanks for all your input. Mozart, I do as you said you "used" to do. I would manually enter the ILS freqs prior, so as to get the needles as early as possible. Next time I fly, I will NOT enter the ILS freqs, and wait for the FMGC to set it up for me and see if that helps.I'll let you all know how it works out./R,Ted

[Guest Hawkeyeted]

>Mozart and all,>>Thanks for all your input. Mozart, I do as you said you>"used" to do. I would manually enter the ILS freqs prior, so>as to get the needles as early as possible. Next time I fly,>I will NOT enter the ILS freqs, and wait for the FMGC to set>it up for me and see if that helps.In addition to the above....riddle me this:Lets say I don't fiddle with the RAD/NAV page. Once ATC sends me on an ILS intercept, do I:A) PUSH the HDG knob to let FMGC turn inbound:( PULL the HDG knob to let FMGC turn inboundC) PUSH the HDG knob, press LOC or APPR as appropriate, and let FMGC turn inbound.C) PULL the HDG knob, press the LOC or APPR as appropriate, and let FMGC turn inboundA side note Mozart; doesn't it sound counter-intutitive to NOT enter the ILS freqs? Maybe that is why I'm a bigger Boeing fan than "The Bus". I like automation, but that is just too much.

[Guest vrandar]

No, I don't think it is counter-intuitive; don't forget you have entered your airport and runway into the F-PLN page already, so it's easy for the computers to pull up the correct ILS from the database.Unless ATC gives you vectors then C (the first one of the two Cs) would be my preferred option. Of course if you are vectored and ATC says "...turn heading xx..." then you have to go to selected heading (pull) then later revert to managed heading (push)when you are about to capture the localiser, then press LOC then APPR etc.

[Guest Hawkeyeted]

(Ooops. I guess I hand an episode of "spastic finger". Should have a "D" following the "C".)OK, let me make sure I've got it straight. PULL the HDG knob, dial ATC assigned intercept course. Once the aircraft settles on that course, PUSH the knob so as to engage managed mode. Once the FMGC has turned and settled the aircraft on the inbound course (effectively "capturing" the ILS localizer beam) engage the APPR or LOC (as approriate)............and pray for a good landing?Thanks for the Help. I'll give it a try.

[mozart 1]

Hawkeyed, I didn't quite understand the A/B/C/D question, but here's how I do it for an ILS approach where ATC assigns vectors:1) During cruise or initial descent, ATC assigns a runway and a heading to follow; press the ILS button2) PULL the HDG button and follow that heading3) For a descend, PULL the ALT button (it will put the aircraft into idle throttle descend mode. Managed descend is not possible when in HDG mode)4) Select the ARR runway on the FMCG5) Programm the APPR mode with the weather info, decision altitude, Vref (did I forget something)6) Check on the RAD/NAV page whether the correct ILS frequency and runway heading have been set7) Crossing 10,000 ft, set the Landing lights8) At about 8,5000 ft AGL, engage the approach mode; this will automatically lower the target speed, and your plane will slow down9) Once ATC issues "Speed Bird 622, you are 18 miles out, turn right heading 100 and descend 2,500, hold 2,500 until established on the localiser. Contact Tower on 119.10" (numbers fictional), then you set the heading of 100 on the autopilot. The plane will automatically fly that heading. NO NEED to push the HDG at any time.10) You should establish your speed at around 180 kn. On the A320, his is typically achieved if you set your flaps to 1. Otherwise, PULL the SPD button and manually enter 180.11) Watch your PFD (the glass gauge on the left). As soon as the ILS frequency shows in pink on the left hand bottom corner(as I explained earlier, the FMCG sets the frequency at the right moment by itself), press LOC. The LOC button will light up in green. On the PFD, "LOC" will light up in white beneath "HDG" which is in green.12) The plane will capture the ILS and "LOC" on the PFD will replace "HDG" and light up in green. This is your prove that the plane now follows the ILS course.13) Slow your speed to around 160 kn (next flap setting will typically do this), and push the "APPR" button. "G/S" will show up on the PFD in white, beneath "ALT" which is in green.14) Press "AP 2" to engage the second autopilot.15)The plane will capture the glidescope, and "G/S" will appear on the PFD.16) Final approach is probably exactly what you do: set the flaps to lower your speed according to the indications on the PFD, set autospoiler, autobrake, etc. Basically you can now sit back until17) A voice counts down the remaining altitude to touchdown. When you hear "retard", decrease the autothrottle by one setting to idle.18) when you touch the ground, engage reverse thrust by decreasing the autothrottle one more setting.19) That's it. The rest is standard procedure. Switch off the autobrakes, leave the runway, etc. Actually, I personally also like to switch off the autopilot (CTRL+Z) once I stop the reverse thrust, I just have the impression it makes rolling out and taxiing easier. But that may just be a personal impression.If you read the parts that I glossed over by saying "etc." in the manual, you should be autolanding perfectly fine.NB: there is NEVER EVER any need to manually set an ILS frequency in the RAD/NAV. Dual autopilot works fine without that.Hope this helps.

[Guest Hawkeyeted]

"11) Watch your PFD (the glass gauge on the left). As soon as the ILS frequency shows in pink on the left hand bottom corner(as I explained earlier, the FMCG sets the frequency at the right moment by itself), press LOC. The LOC button will light up in green. On the PFD, "LOC" will light up in white beneath "HDG" which is in green."Mozart,This is that part that doesn't work for me, and I think it is because I was manually tuning the Nav radios (via MFDU). I would get the pink ILS info on the PFD, but when I pressed the LOC button, it would not illuminate. The next opportunity I get, I will NOT fiddle with the RAD/NAV page, and see what I get.../R,Ted

[Guest vrandar]

"NB: there is NEVER EVER any need to manually set an ILS frequency in the RAD/NAV. Dual autopilot works fine without that"Apart from the fact that it is Airbus Standard Operating Procedure :), so I do it.

[Guest Hawkeyeted]

My problem Rob is that I am an avionics tech by trade. I can't keep my hands off the darn buttons!/R,Ted Barkley