simple vert managed issue

[scoob 18]

to be honest peter i've never noticed.i use the <+> and <-> keys only to move through the gates and never thought it was necessary to hit a key twice to move through the 'CL' setting (as shown in the E/WD display). i do not have the throttle panel open much (use it to change COM for ATIS on approach, transponder when on VATSIM, and engine start/stop) so i don't really see what the display is doing when using the throttle commands.--

[Guest vrandar]

Apologies for not having commented on this thread before now, I was away in London for much of the week.Peter you asked: "WHAT ALT SHOULD BE ON THE FCU IF YOU WANT THE PLANE TO FLY AVERT PROFILE DEFINED IN THE MCDU"The thread is rather long and I'm still reading it so sorry if scoob has answered it, but it indicates to me that you might not be to clear about selected and managed modes. This concept is fundamental in flying the Airbus.Managed mode is where the data in the MCDU is managing the speed, heading, alt or vertical speed or a combination of these. You go to managed mode for one of these by pressing the relevant knob, and in the PSS Airbus this is achieved by left clicking the knob. In managed you are pushing control away from you to the MCDU. Managed mode is shown on the FCU by ---. for speed, heading and v/s. It only shows a . (dot) for alt (when not on the ground) and never goes to ---.Selected mode is where you select the speed, heading, alt or vertical speed and for this you pull (right click) the knob. In selected you are pulling control to you.So for altitude for example, say you are in the SID after departure and have set an altitude constraint for a waypoint of 4000 feet. You could put 4000 feet or anything higher into the FCU and push (left click) the knob and you would reach 4000 but not higher - the MCDU is managing the altitude and adhering to the constraint. But if you entered 6000 into the FCU and pulled (right clicked) the knob you would go to that as the choice of selected mode means the MCDU is no longer controlling the altitude.The same principle applies with the other knobs.Hope this helps.Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

[pkofman 4]

RobThank youThats very helpfulOne of the interesting things that I keep thinking about when flying is left click the airbus has controlright click I have controlBut the one question remains unanswered for me and this is as followsSay im taking off and program a vert profile in the mdcu to say fl300can I set the fcu at say 31000 and left push the alt knobWill the a340 fly the mdcu profile as programmed in the mdcu with out pilot intervention ,automatically or will it go straight to fl310that might be a basic question ,but the same logic may apply on the descent ie , set a lower profile than the profile and let the aircraft decend according to the mdcu profile Hope this makes sensethanks in advancePeter

[Guest vrandar]

If you have set your cruise fl to be FL300 yes you can set your FCU to 31000 and if you push (left click) the alt knob it will climb up to FL300 adhering to any alt constraints in the SID. It will climb right through to FL310 even though the MCDU is only "expecting" FL300. I have to confess to finding this a bit puzzling and assume it's a programming glitch by PSS. Logically it should only go to FL300 and not to FL310 unless either the MCDU PROG page (or INIT page) s changed or you switch to selected alt.Yes you are right about the descent. Quite often what I will do is to set the alt in the MCDU to say 2500 at the final approach fix (depending on what the charts show). Then go to managed alt and descend, but any alt constraints in the STAR will be adhered to. It is a useful visual clue to have the CSTR button on when you are doing this so you can follow the constraints in the ND.Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

[pkofman 4]

>If you have set your cruise fl to be FL300 yes you can set>your FCU to 31000 and if you push (left click) the alt knob it>will climb up to FL300 adhering to any alt constraints in the>SID. It will climb right through to FL310 even though the MCDU>is only "expecting" FL300. I have to confess to finding this a>bit puzzling and assume it's a programming glitch by PSS.>Logically it should only go to FL300 and not to FL310 unless>either the MCDU PROG page (or INIT page) s changed or you>switch to selected alt.>Well that clears that up. I am not crazy. I would have expected that the aircraft would go to the mdcu crz alt (say fl300) and not to fl310 but the aircraft goes straight through the mdcu alt. That just does not make sense to me if it is a managed vert profile. Ok, so I will accept that , I think the logic is a bit off on that one but if thats how it really flys who am i to say its wrong!NOw the corollary , as below is the opposite true? Say the vert profile in the mdcu is set all the way to say 2500 at the IAF , If I put in a lower alt in the fcu ( say 1500), in managed descent will the aircraft go to the lower alt in the fcu or will it stop at the alt in the mdcu. When is the theoretical best time to engage the approach phase Per the manual I would say at the decel or just before the TODWould you agree with that.one more, Is it theoretically possible to say program the mdcu right to the ground. engage managed decent and managed nav , program the star,transition and approach and let the plane right down to the runway ( obviously I would need to engage the app, ils and gs _ 2nd ap)Sorry if this is a bit technical and I hope I asked the question clearly.Peter>Yes you are right about the descent. Quite often what I will>do is to set the alt in the MCDU to say 2500 at the final>approach fix (depending on what the charts show). Then go to>managed alt and descend, but any alt constraints in the STAR>will be adhered to. It is a useful visual clue to have the>CSTR button on when you are doing this so you can follow the>constraints in the ND.>>Rob Elliott, EGPE Inverness>PSS Airbus Support and>Airbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual >airbus@speedbirdonline.co.uk>http://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.html>http://www.bavirtual.co.ukPeter K P.EngCF-MMZToronto Ontario CanadaPMDG 747,737and 747FLevel D 767PSS Airbus pro A340-300In reality, a Mooney 201 Pilot

[Guest vrandar]

There are a couple of considerations here and the climb and descent have to be treated differently.Thinking about this more overnight, the cruise level entered into either the PROG or INIT page is a planned] FL, but you can override this as you have seen unless there is a hard alt constraint. The MCDU will always adhere to a hard constraint.Now in the descent you have not entered a planned level but this is known by the MCDU from the arrival runway you have entered on the F-PLN page. If you enter 1500 into the FCU and go to managed alt it will take you below this unless you have entered a hard alt constraint.What I do for the climb is to enter the planed flight level into the FCU. I wopuldn't plan on FL300 and then enter 31000 into the MCDU and go to managed. I haven't tested it but it will probably lead to errors in various calculations like fuel, TOC/TOD time of arrival etc.On the descent I usually enter PBD fixes and hard alt constrants as per STAR charts and approach plates in order to ensure a smooth continuous descent profile.Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

[pkofman 4]

>Rob, its interesting how we start to think about this stuff in our sleep. It is addictive.! , Thanks for the response , my comments below , a few clarifications.There are a couple of considerations here and the climb and>descent have to be treated differently.>>Thinking about this more overnight, the cruise level entered>into either the PROG or INIT page is a planned] FL, but you>can override this as you have seen unless there is a hard alt>constraint. The MCDU will always adhere to a hard constraint.when you say a hard alt constraint , you mean an alt set by me on the fcu or a hard constraint in the mcdu >>Now in the descent you have not entered a planned level but>this is known by the MCDU from the arrival runway you have>entered on the F-PLN page. If you enter 1500 into the FCU and>go to managed alt it will take you below this unless you have>entered a hard alt constraint.This is opposite to climb where a fcu alt is busted , I thought that a fcu alt would always be the hard constraint , in cmb or descent, that is why I would always put the fcu alt just LOWER than the lowest alt I would want to achieveSo if the mda or dh or fix said 2000, I could theoretically use 1800 in the fcu and I know then that the plane will never bust that alt.>>What I do for the climb is to enter the planed flight level>into the FCU. I wopuldn't plan on FL300 and then enter 31000>into the MCDU and go to managed. I haven't tested it but it>will probably lead to errors in various calculations like>fuel, TOC/TOD time of arrival etc.I agree, I think I may have side it backwards earlier. I would plan 30000 and I would put the flight plan into the mdcu up to 30000. But i would enter 31000 in the fcu , hit managed mode and hopefully I would see the plan level off at 30000, It should not bust that alt. If im not in managed then the plane would proceed right to 31000.>>On the descent I usually enter PBD fixes and hard alt>constraints as per STAR charts and approach plates in order to>ensure a smooth continuous descent profile.Rob, at what point do you actually engage the approach phaseI suppose this entire thread comes down to the fact that what I was trying to figure out was if the pss a340 aircraft would in fact fly the vert profile up and down according to the mdcu flight plan without alt intervention by the pilot once the fcu alts were set above the highest point on clb and lowest on descent.Thanks for all of the info help.>>Rob Elliott, EGPE Inverness>PSS Airbus Support and>Airbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual >airbus@speedbirdonline.co.uk>http://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.html>http://www.bavirtual.co.uk