I THINK I HAVE FIGURED OUT THE FS9 JOYSTICK PROBLEMS!

[Guest leglegle]

So, While I had the panel flicker problem, and solved it with the 2,2 change, and patch in FS9. But, I have also been plagued by the problem where the ailerons/elevators just flap back and forth constantly (visually and in the MFD), despite full control input from my elite Pro Panel inputs, and I cannot take off even with proper ZFW, trim, etc. because my little Flight director shows that it just snaps back, and when outside the aircraft, the elevators and ailerons just flutter back and forth. So, I have tried the mouse flicker patch, the 2,2 revision on the panel cfg, loading default flight, up to date payware FSUIPC, etc., and even tried the IFDG merge (which I know you don't support). But, try this little thing on for size!I noticed upon loading any aircraft with a PSS panel, whether the default PSS As320, A319, etc., or the IFDG/PSS merge, that when I load the aircraft in spot view, and move my joystick, all of the control surfaces work perfectly. Or at least, they don't flutter visually anymore, and I can fly the aircraft in spot view. BUT!!!! When, I switch inside the plane, whether default PSS in 2-d or VC mode, or use the 2-d panel in IFDG merge, I instaneously get the problem where the flight controls will flutter visually outside, the flight director snaps back to center immediately after I move the joystick (but before I reach the desired pitch/bank angle)Do you see what I am saying? Clearly despite the 2,2 change in the panel config, despite the mouse flicker patch, despite using the default PSS plane, and not the IFDG plane, despite calibrating the joystick, despite loading a default flight, and even loading a default flight over and over again, and returning to PSS, etc....... THE ONLY TIME THE JOYSTICK AND THE PSS PANEL/PLANE OR IFDG/PSS PANEL WORKS PROPERLY IS WHEN I LOAD THE PLANE, WHETHER AFTER A DEFAULT PLANE, OR NOT, IN SPOT VIEW! THE INSTANT THAT I SWITCH INTO THE COCKPIT AND THE PSS PANEL LOADS, WHAMMI, THE JOYSTICK NO LONGER WORKS PROPERLY, EVEN THOUGH I GO BACK OUT INTO SPOT VIEW. IF, AFTER I AM IN SPOT VIEW, AND I THEN GO UP INTO THE MENU, AND CHOOSE ANOTHER PSS A319, A320, or IFDG plane, THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I WAS JUST IN, AND I AM IN SPOT VIEW, IT WILL WORK AGAIN, UNTIL I GO BACK IN AND LOAD THE COCKPIT!AND SO, I GOT TO THINKING. ERIC MARCIANO ALLOWS YOU TO TURN OFF THE ELAC system. COULD PSS DO THAT TO SOLVE EVERYONE'S PROBLEMS ON THIS ISSUE? OR MORE IMPORTANTLY! WHAT SYSTEM IS KICKING IN WHEN THE PANEL TURNS ON, THAT ISN'T TAKING PLACE WHEN I AM IN SPOT VIEW, AND THE AIRCRAFT IS STILL RUNNING, ETC? IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AN AIRACRAFT MODEL PROBLEM, OR SYSTEMS PROBLEM, BUT SOMETHING IN THE PANEL GAUGES ITSELF! PERHAPS THE FLIGHT DIRECTOR? I SAY THIS BECAUSE I ONLY HAVE PROBLEMS AFTER SWITCHING TO 2-d or VC COCKPIT VIEW, AND THE PANEL GOES FROM BLACK SCREENS TO "Functional", WHICH HAPPENS RIGHT WHEN YOU SWITCH INTO COCKPIT VIEW.Keep in mind that I am a commercial pilot, I have been simming for over 20 years, and I understand both FS as well as the Airbus fly-by-wire nuances very well. I hope that this helps. I have had PSS for a long time, and I hope that this small problem can be fixed for FS9. It seems to be the single largest problem in the forums. Christopher

[Guest vrandar]

Please don't use all caps Christopher, it's the equivalent of shouting.Actually your issue is not the biggest issue on the forum, that is the MS dead battery glitch and the effect it has on the PSS Airbus - it is strange how many problems are traced back to this. So I will assume here that you are always starting your FS session with a default MS aircraft with avionics on and engines off saved as the default flight and then switching to the PSS Airbus.You do have a serious issue. It will be of no consolation to you to learn that in the last 4 years or so I have never once had it happen. It does seem to be caused by something in the gauge file. I will do some investigating this morning to see if we have a record of a solution to this as there will not be a fix or update from PSS.Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

[Guest leglegle]

Alright, didn't really think of the shouting thing. At any rate, yes, default, engines off, avionics on. Trust me. I have read the forums over and over. If you look at your posts, a ton of people have complained of an aircraft that won't rotate at v1, and fluttering control surfaces. While the rotation is sometimes solved by changing trim settings to a close to -2.0 figure, I think a lot of people are having the problem that I have, without being able to describe it well in writing. At any rate, something to remember, is that I am using the Elite Pro Panel quadrant, which requires it's own elite.dll module, and is a $2000 panel with yoke, throttle, gear, avionics panel, etc built in. I think this uses FSUIPC to interact as well as Elite.dll, a file that is available for FS2002, and 2004 at http://www.flyelite.ch/Flightsim/http://www.flyelite.ch/Flightsim/downloads.htmlCB

[Guest vrandar]

A thought. Have you got registered FSUIPC? If so go to the Miscellaneous page and on the left in the Fixes and Improvements section and make sure "Discon Elev Axis for A/P" is NOT checked.Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

[Guest leglegle]

Yes, I do have registered version. I am pretty sure it is unchecked. I will let you know. CB

[Guest leglegle]

Looks like it was unchecked. Here is my FSUIPC.ini file[General]History=Y7WSH2C4PZXMPD72Q5XHEWindSmoothing=NoWhiteMessages=NoThrottleSyncAll=NoGraduatedVisibility=NoLowerVisAltitude=0UpperVisAltitude=25000UpperVisibility=6000GenerateCirrus=NoWindShearSharp=NoUpperWindGusts=YesExtendMetarMaxVis=NoPatchSimApAlt=NoDisconnTrimForAP=NoAutoClearWeather=YesExtendTopWind=NoWindSmoothness=10SmoothPressure=NoPressureSmoothness=5SmoothVisibility=YesVisibilitySmoothness=5MaxSurfaceWind=0WindLimitLevel=200WindDiscardLevel=400WindAjustAltitude=NoWindAjustAltitudeBy=2000MinimumVisibility=0MaximumVisibilityFewClouds=0MaximumVisibility=0MaximumVisibilityOvercast=0MaximumVisibilityRainy=0OneCloudLayer=NoThinClouds=NoThinThunderClouds=NoCloudThinness=1000ThunderCloudThinness=10000CloudTurbulence=NoCloudIcing=YesWindTurbulence=NoSuppressAllGusts=NoExternalOptionControl=YesAutoTuneADF=NoKeepFS98CloudCover=NoShowPMcontrols=NoMagicBattery=YesRudderSpikeRemoval=YesElevatorSpikeRemoval=YesAileronSpikeRemoval=YesReversedElevatorTrim=NoTrapUserInterrupt=YesNavFreq50KHz=NoClockSync=NoSmoothIAS=NoSetVisUpperAlt=NoVisUpperAltLimit=6000MaxIce=-4WindSmoothingDelay=0WindSmoothAirborneOnly=NoVisSmoothingDelay=0VisSmoothAirborneOnly=YesSuppressCloudTurbulence=NoSuppressWindTurbulence=NoSpoilerIncrement=512ShortAircraftNameOk=NoTCASid=FlightTCASrange=40TrafficScanPerFrame=10AxisCalibration=NoCentredDialogue=NoClearWeatherDynamics=NoOwnWeatherChanges=NoFixWindows=NoFixControlAccel=YesWeatherReadInterval=4MoveBGLvariables=YesMainMenu=&ModulesSubMenu=&FSUIPC ...AutoTaxiWind=NoZeroElevForAPAlt=NoTimeForSelect=4PropTaxiWind=NoTimeSetMode=PartialWeatherReadsFast=NoMinIce=-4TrafficControlDirect=YesLimitWindVariance=NoShowMultilineWindow=NoSuppressSingleline=NoSuppressMultilineFS=NoStopAutoFuel=No[JoystickCalibration]FlapsSetControl=0ReverserControl=66292MaxThrottleForReverser=0AileronTrimControl=0RudderTrimControl=0CowlFlaps1Control=0CowlFlaps2Control=0CowlFlaps3Control=0CowlFlaps4Control=0Aileron=-16380,-512,512,10000Elevator=-16380,-512,512,16380Rudder=-13842,-512,512,15458Mixture=-16380,16380ExclThrottleSet=NoSepRevsJetsOnly=NoReverser1Control=66422Reverser2Control=66425Reverser3Control=66428Reverser4Control=66431ApplyHeloTrim=NoFlapDetents=NoMaxSteerSpeed=60Also, keep in mind, we are looking for a value/parameter that would make control surfaces work in Spot view, before the panel/interior cockpit is loaded upon switching views. This seems to be the only difference that I can see between working/not working.

[Guest vrandar]

But that value/parameter could well be in the gauge file and I have no access to the code in that. Have you tried a re-install (it is the download version and not the CD isn't it)? Out of curiosity does it do it with the iFDG/PSS merge as well? Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

[Guest leglegle]

Yes, it is registered. It is unchecked. Here is .ini. But, here is another interesting little ditty. When I go into the Elite calibration/setup tool which is an item in the FS9 top menu, like the FSUIPC menu item, where you change the parameters, I have played around with the null zone. I get the widest range of movement shown on the flight director, the FLCTR screen, the stick in VC mode, and the external control surfaces, when I make the null zone as low as I can make it. The stick still snaps back to zero position, but I can move it the farthest and it will stay at the desired angle just a little bit longer than when I make the null zone the normal amount. Needless to say this makes the plane way to sensitive in it's control inputs when the joystick movements do work, but it at least makes it slightly controllable.IN FACT! HERE IS A MAJOR POINT I WANTED YOU TO SEE WHICH MIGHT HELP (NOT YELLING, JUST HIGHLIGHTING) What I have noticed, is when I constantly cycle the yoke back and forth across the point where the null zone "edges" would be, it produces the desired effect! I get control surface deflection. But, the instant the yoke goes to the other side of the null zone "edges"(imagine a "square" that you set around the center of the calibration that affects both elevator and aileron null zone), whether to the inside or outside, the FD, control surfaces, stick in VC, arrows in FLCTR screen, all snap back to zero. So, this leads me to belive that the null zone parameters that are "represented" by this square, are telling the panel, or vice versa, when to "sense" the yoke. And, to either side of this parameter, whether less deflection, or more deflection, the panel is not seeing the inputs. It's as if the panel only senses the inputs exactly on this theoretical "line" where the null zone box is represented. So, when I turn the yoke back and forth, or push/pull it, the only time I see any indication of deflection in the sim, is when the yoke crosses the null zone box line. Make sense?It is something in the way that the panel/model reads the null zone as set by the user. So, consequently, as I said before, the if I set no null zone at all, I have to cycle the yoke less to constantly cross this null zone parameter, because it is very close the center of the controller. When the null zone is wide, the "box" is farther away, and it takes me bigger yoke movements to cross the null zone box, and consequently, in order to cross it again, I have to turn the yoke back more. So, bigger null zone = bigger oscillations of the yoke needed to cross the lines of the box to effectuate movemens. Smaller null zone "box = better control because I can constantly move the yoke back and forth during my attempt to make a turn, climb, or descent. But, needless to say, constantly having to push the yoke back and forth like a crazy car driver, is not realistic... :)) Keep in mind also, that when I use Eric Marciano's panel with IFDG (just as a reference, I know you don't support it), whether I use ELAC off or on, I get the desired controllability. I don't know if this helps you or not. [General]History=Y7WSH2C4PZXMPD72Q5XHEWindSmoothing=NoWhiteMessages=NoThrottleSyncAll=NoGraduatedVisibility=NoLowerVisAltitude=0UpperVisAltitude=25000UpperVisibility=6000GenerateCirrus=NoWindShearSharp=NoUpperWindGusts=YesExtendMetarMaxVis=NoPatchSimApAlt=NoDisconnTrimForAP=NoAutoClearWeather=YesExtendTopWind=NoWindSmoothness=10SmoothPressure=NoPressureSmoothness=5SmoothVisibility=YesVisibilitySmoothness=5MaxSurfaceWind=0WindLimitLevel=200WindDiscardLevel=400WindAjustAltitude=NoWindAjustAltitudeBy=2000MinimumVisibility=0MaximumVisibilityFewClouds=0MaximumVisibility=0MaximumVisibilityOvercast=0MaximumVisibilityRainy=0OneCloudLayer=NoThinClouds=NoThinThunderClouds=NoCloudThinness=1000ThunderCloudThinness=10000CloudTurbulence=NoCloudIcing=YesWindTurbulence=NoSuppressAllGusts=NoExternalOptionControl=YesAutoTuneADF=NoKeepFS98CloudCover=NoShowPMcontrols=NoMagicBattery=YesRudderSpikeRemoval=YesElevatorSpikeRemoval=YesAileronSpikeRemoval=YesReversedElevatorTrim=NoTrapUserInterrupt=YesNavFreq50KHz=NoClockSync=NoSmoothIAS=NoSetVisUpperAlt=NoVisUpperAltLimit=6000MaxIce=-4WindSmoothingDelay=0WindSmoothAirborneOnly=NoVisSmoothingDelay=0VisSmoothAirborneOnly=YesSuppressCloudTurbulence=NoSuppressWindTurbulence=NoSpoilerIncrement=512ShortAircraftNameOk=NoTCASid=FlightTCASrange=40TrafficScanPerFrame=10AxisCalibration=NoCentredDialogue=NoClearWeatherDynamics=NoOwnWeatherChanges=NoFixWindows=NoFixControlAccel=YesWeatherReadInterval=4MoveBGLvariables=YesMainMenu=&ModulesSubMenu=&FSUIPC ...AutoTaxiWind=NoZeroElevForAPAlt=NoTimeForSelect=4PropTaxiWind=NoTimeSetMode=PartialWeatherReadsFast=NoMinIce=-4TrafficControlDirect=YesLimitWindVariance=NoShowMultilineWindow=NoSuppressSingleline=NoSuppressMultilineFS=NoStopAutoFuel=No[JoystickCalibration]FlapsSetControl=0ReverserControl=66292MaxThrottleForReverser=0AileronTrimControl=0RudderTrimControl=0CowlFlaps1Control=0CowlFlaps2Control=0CowlFlaps3Control=0CowlFlaps4Control=0Aileron=-16380,-512,512,10000Elevator=-16380,-512,512,16380Rudder=-13842,-512,512,15458Mixture=-16380,16380ExclThrottleSet=NoSepRevsJetsOnly=NoReverser1Control=66422Reverser2Control=66425Reverser3Control=66428Reverser4Control=66431ApplyHeloTrim=NoFlapDetents=NoMaxSteerSpeed=60

[Guest leglegle]

Yes, it does it with the merge. And, yes, download version. But, I have redownloaded a number of times, and applied all patches, fixes, etc. CB

[Guest leglegle]

Does the gauge file have a parameter that sees the null zone? It seems to me that if you are modelling a fly-by-wire system, that is modelling a stick that goes back to neutral, but maintains the desired pitch/bank, that perhaps there is a conflict with the way that the gauge sees the null zone associated with particular joystick. For example, the elite controls don't show up as an axis in the default FS9 calibration screen. They are in the Elite menu item. However my CH yoke pedals do. So, perhaps because the null zone and sensitivities are not determined by the default FS9 menu, the null zone is not being read properly by the gauge file. But, Elite did spend a lot of time to get their stuff to be FSUIPC compatible. So, it should work. I am pretty sure that I had no problems with PSS in 2002. I know the code changed a bit, but I am pretty sure that FS9, is the only source of the trouble. CB

[Guest leglegle]

Just did another test. If I constantly jerk the yoke back and forth, and side to side lightly, constantly moving it across the null zone box "edges", I can keep the flight director on the same pitch angle for a couple of seconds before it snaps back to zero. Again, it is because the movement is constantly crossing the null zone parameter. This is the key. It's almost as if the gauge file is reading the null zone parameter backwards/inverse. We see control surface, Flight Director, VC stick, and FLCTR screen deflection when crossing the null zone, but no deflection when we are not on the null zone box "definition" (whatever code that is). Instead, what we should see, is control deflection at all points outside of the null zone "box", NOT including the null zone box edges themselves. This box would be the theoretical outer level of where yoke movement = no control surface deflection. Only outside of this box should we see deflection for yoke movement. In other words only when the yoke cross the lines of the "null zone parameters box" do we see deflection. Both inside, and outside of the box we see nothing. What we should see, is delection of flight controls outside of the box, and none inside, as this is the null zone.

[Guest leglegle]

Sorry, didn't see the 2nd to last post coming up on forum. Basically duplicated it. Perhaps a bit clearer 2nd time. CB

[Guest leglegle]

Rob, Any thoughts as to a possible solution? Btw, you mentioned that you don't have access to the code. I am not being malicious, but just curious how you perform support without the ability to make changes to a particular file or aspect of the product? Just wondering what the current PSS structure is.Thanks for your help.CB

[Guest vrandar]

Due to other work I haven't had a chance really to look at your previous threads but will do so asap.Many of the problems that pilots face can be dealt with through checking their procedures and, where necessary, making changes to air and cfg files (EGT overtemp, lift scalars etc). I would love to have access to the code in the gauge file and be able to issue even unofficial patches, but presumably for commercial reasons they do not release the code. PSS just asked me to provide the support I can in a part-time unpaid capacity when time permits from my real world job. Actually I've never even met any of the PSS staff.Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

[Guest leglegle]

Ah cool. Thanks for the response. Yeah, it seems like it boils down to something with the null zone. When my joystick crosses the box that defines the zone, I get control surface deflection. To either side of this line, it snaps back to neutral. CB