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Norman, John: My issues after flying the 777

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Hello Norman and John.My issues after flying the 777:*Autostart logic (wrong). (More important to correct)*In flight (FDE): Speebrakes open causes abrupt nose up and rapid A/T action.*GS/LOC intercept: "Bouncing left and right" after estabilish LOC.*Autoland: Quicky A/T accelerate and decelerate when AP changes FLARE mode for ROLLOUT mode.*EICAS shows "AUTOPILOT" in red when AP is disconected. If pressing "Master Warning" after (reset), the message still there.*Abrupt AP reactions in flight: V/S, if selected, causes rapid reaction in any conditions (500, 800, 1000, 2000Ft e etc. UP or DOWN). FLCH mode cause, after decelerate to MCP speed, too much dive. The AP system do not capture with precision, if flying (climb) in FLCH or VNAV modes, the IAS inserted (MCP or FMC). The IAS stay always below but never capture, with precision, the IAS described in MCP or FMC. VNAV in descent commands abrupts A/T variations. Could be more smooth.Regards,Ernest

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Ernest,Just my two cents according to all of the real world DVD's I have watched from ITVV. VNAV is rarely if ever used in real aircraft for level changes. Reason being it acts the exact same way it does in the sim, very drastic changes.All of the DVD's I watched the pilots have made a point to mention that when doing step climbs, descents etc... they will use V/S to control it themselves because otherwise the plane would climb at 3000FPM from 330 to 350. It is not PSS if I am understanding what I have read and seen.As for the bouncing on LOC, unfortunately I can not replicate. You will need to give us more info, Speed, CG flaps, vref etc...I haven't deployed speedbrakes in flight yet so I can not comment on thatI do not have enough knowledge of the autostart system to comment on thatIf you got a warning and reset it, why would you hit master warning again? Not denying it behaves like you said but why hit master warning if you have no more warnings?Personally, I love the plane so far and she has been rock solid in LNAV, VNAV, LOC, APP, and V/S, I just make small inputs in V/S because it should try to get to that V/S as quickly as possible after dialing it in. If I want to climb by 1000 fpm I will turn the knob 100 fpm for 10 seconds opposed to just dialing in 1000 fpm. I even saw it do something none of my other payware a/c have been able to do. When coming into KEWR, I came in too fast and almost overshot the LOC, the plane attempted to cpature it, lost it but kept turning to recapture. Any other A/C I have flown, you are screwed once you lose the LOC, very tough to get back, the T7 found it again and lined me up perfectly at KEWR from 5 miles out. If only it told me I was landing in KEWR instead of KSEA I would have been fine :)Did you install RC1? Did you do a "FULL" uninstall after, even removing the folders if you did? If it is the release version only for you, have you tried a re-install, I have seen it cure worse than this behavior for others.Good luck,-PaulFrom one of John's posts:here is a list of installed files, some are not removed by the un-installerAircraftPSS-B772LRPSS-B772LRFPSS-B773ERPSSB77704Effectsfx_pss_fuel_jett.fxfx_pss_Startup.fxfx_PSS_VC_light.fxGaugesFSWXR2100.gauPSS-B777.gauModulesFSUIPC.dllPssboeing 777NavDataFSvoronoi.datWindowsFontsIRS.ttfBaloo.ttf

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>Ernest,>Just my two cents according to all of the real world DVD's I>have watched from ITVV. VNAV is rarely if ever used in real>aircraft for level changes. Reason being it acts the exact>same way it does in the sim, very drastic changes.>All of the DVD's I watched the pilots have made a point to>mention that when doing step climbs, descents etc... they will>use V/S to control it themselves because otherwise the plane>would climb at 3000FPM from 330 to 350. It is not PSS if I am>understanding what I have read and seen.Absolutely true. I have spent 6+ hours couple month ago in cockpit of an older airbus transatlantic. They have done it this way:FL350 step to FL370...> select FL370 on autopilot, than FL CH..At the beginning +700ft, once the plane started to climb turning to +1200ft. Than the same applied for step from FL370 to FL390.Rosta

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Agreed. I was descending on a quick circuit, so I selected V/S and set -800fpm. The nose dived down very quickly, and then had to be caught and brought back up before descent settled at -800.It reminds me alot of similar problems I had with the autopilot in the PSS Concorde. It also tended to dive about a bit to drastically, and was constantly going to far and having to come back and correct itself. -Phil

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The biggest problem with autopilot logic form me thus fas was FL CH. I was cruising and decided to descend wih FLCH. I selected 280 as my airspeed on the MCO, activated FLCH and waited for the a/p to do its magic. It didn't go as expected. The aircraft did not obey the logic of descelerating prior to start descending. Instead of descelarating from my 315 speed to 280 while in a shallow descent to then start descending at idle maintaing that airspeed, the 777 simply dove for the ground without due regard to airspeed. Plus, my attitude was way off for an idle thrust descent. I believe I had upwards of 5 degree nose down and that attitude is simply unacceptable for passangers in the back of the aircraft. That is a know limitation of the 777 design. Could anyone try to replicate this?Another thing I would like to discuss is the lack of use of vnav in real world ops someone mentioned earlier. I have never know this to be true except for one F/O that told me that he did not trust vnav too much. And it is true that most pilots like to step climb using V/S so as to make a smooth "cuise-climb without using too much engine power and nose up since most passengers are sleeping. Other than that, on all the various flights I had the priviledge to witness from the cockpit, most of the flight was accomplished with vnav and the aircraft operated exceptionally well. Otherwise, what would be the point of having an advanced vertical navigation feature?BR,Victorhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg

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I have found using V/S I use the mouse wheel and scroll very slowly. It is the only way I could avoid the jumping of the nose. I had hoped this could be fixed but the feeling I am getting and the fact that PSS aircraft in the past react the same way so I dont think it will change. I hope I am wrong. Anyway I enjoy the 777 but I feel other aircraft seem to fly a little more smoothly and not so much like a fighter jet. Also I have no real world experience of how these different Jetliner fly I just hope it is smoothe within the limitations of MSFS.

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>V/S is rarely used in the real world.According the the "Real World" training captain's at the UAL training center in Denver at last year's VATSIM conferfence, they encourged the use of V/S instead of FLCH or VNAV for step climb's or descents, at least in the 757/767's. I also checked with several 757/67 captain's that fly for a brown cargo company near here and they told me it was an individual captain's or company policy issue. Most have flown for major carriers (AAL, TWA, UAL) prior to moving to cargo. Cargo pilot's have less PAX comfort's to worry about, but still don't want a 6 ton pallet going negative in the rear with rapid control movements. So generally, V/S is the prefered method of small altitude changes in the "Real World".Steve ParkKSDF

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So, to put things in perspective, is the general concensus that, since V/S is used more than any other method, we shouldn't worry about a VNAV or FLCH that simply is way out of spec and unreliable?Can't agree. I fly too many other planes where these function almost without incident.*Speaking of VNAV, how does one disable VNAV and LNAV? No, really. I do know how it's supposed to work, but my lights once selected remain on until APP kicks in near as I can tell with a few flights under my belt.Deacontg272

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>V/S is rarely used in the real world.Yes it is. It's used as part of almost all commercial airline operaiton, just not for climb phases, as in FS2004 default planes.V/S is not an economical way to climb as it does not utilize best climb rate for the given N1.Climbing using forward speed as a reference (ie..FLCH), rather than Vertical Speed, also means that the climb rate will automatically reduce as altitude increases, (due to the reduction in IAS at higher altitude). However, on descent, especially at high altitude, V/S is more appropriate to FLCH as it results in a smoother, predictable rate of descent for passenger comfort, and often helps Pilots conform with ATC descent instructions more easily / accurately.David.

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Hmm, I don't know about the 777, pimped Airbus that it is!I'm sure Phoenix had some 777 drivers looking at it so I'm sure it's pretty spot on! Would these not be limitations of FS2004? Pehaps someone could answer that one?But V/S is the work of the devil.V/S only of use for me coming into LGW to shunt into the glideslope at APP capture and then I'd still bodge it up!I think it's pants and and not only helped me but handed me a bigger shovel with which to dig myself a bigger hole !Some guys like it but I didn't. FLCH works and can produce big pitch changes at high speed sometimes!With APP armed then captured I've seen the plane take a LONG time hunting before deciding which direction it'd like to go!Bas

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