FS2004 freezes when altering current leg parameters

[Byrna 0]

I am not at home now but can check this tonight or MOnday night - however, on Thursday, I had tried a flight with the PSS 777LR and the freeze occurred ONLY when I changed the CURRENTLY active waypoint to add restrictions in the LEG page of the FMC. Changing the other waypoint restrictins had no problems.On Friday, I flew a flight with the PMDG 744 and no freezes. However, I don't remember if I made changes to the CURRENTLY ACTIVE waypoint (i.e. my next waypoint to which I am on my way right now). Navdata is a shaared folder right? So all add-ons use the same folder or do they? If so, I have made changes to many waypoints in the PMDG 744 and never had freezes. Besides, if NAVDATA is corrupt (I DID install the latest version which came with PSS 777LR), then other add-ons would also freeze.I'll try to get everyone more specifics in the next 1-2 days.John

[Guest Tim W]

>>Navdata is a shaared folder right? So all add-ons use the>same folder or do they? If so, I have made changes to many>waypoints in the PMDG 744 and never had freezes. Besides, if>NAVDATA is corrupt (I DID install the latest version which>came with PSS 777LR), then other add-ons would also freeze.John, are you sure it's the latest version, Mine is 0511 and it didnt come with the 777.Cheershttp://members.chello.nl/t.westnutt/realair.gif

[Guest LAX5x5]

I've encountered the same freezing problem twice now. I was making some adjustments in the leg page and my computer froze. I guess the appropriate step to take at the moment, until someone comes up with a solution to this, is not to takeoff unless my route is set in stone and needs no corrections.-Ely

[Guest sb55mv]

Hi Guy'sI am also experiencing the same issues, but, the more I read these posts, the more confused I get as to what is the actual trigger effect of these lock-ups.after all, were not ####, just trying to solve this so we can enjoy flying this wonderful bird.what I have noticed so far is, the CDU doesn't seem to like you altering the Current leg parameters at all. it seems to throw a wobbly if you select a different point and then press the Exec, let's just say you are tracking direct to LAM, and a controller tells you to go Dir to BNN, that's the point where I tend to get it. and, I also have had this if I am at say, FL250 and 310kts, and want to go down to FL150/280 at LAM, as soon as I altered the speed/alt and selected "Exec" that was it for me, I had to Ctrl>Alt>Del to get out of FS9.I even did a EGLL-EIDW flight and found a similar thing. so, I can't seem to pin point it to any specific SID/STAR/VOR etc, I did try these flights in a 767 and 747 from other companies, and I did not get any of these problems, so. either it's a tricky Navdata file, or a logic in the CDU/FMC somewhere thats not behaving itself.I did get the 0511 from Navdata.at, as I was also having the same problem with the original airac that came with the base pack for the T7.these are the only things I can come up with, and, if PSS have any requests or suggestions for us to try, please do contact me so we can work together to try and track this rogue situation.PS, has anyone set their own weather yet to see what it looks like on the WX Radar screen, WoW, I set cumulus at 5000 to 12000, then Thunderclouds at FL20-FL40, and some really nasty winds and turbulence, good grief, you ought to see the colours etc that the screen was giving me, in fact, I'm sure that had PSS added an audible side to this WX gizmo, it would have been coming out with things like, "Don't even think of it pal", or, "are you mad, let's stay on the ground you idiot" !Edit, I have no idea why it put the # symbols in this post. all I had there was Daft?

[Guest Knikolaes]

>Edit, I have no idea why it put the # symbols in this post. >all I had there was Daft?LOL I do chuckle at the censor sometimes. So far I only had issues on tha one route, but this weeknd I am indeed doing a lot of flying and will keep a journal of every freeze I may encounter. I suggest everyone do the same - log EVERYTHING you do in the FMC so that PSS may try to duplicate this error.

[Byrna 0]

Actually, just today, the same error occurred under the same basic circumstances:On a completely new route than my last flight with a new flight plan (in Oceania flying between RAROTONGA and MURUROA -> NCRG TO NTTX) while still at the gate at RAROTONGA I tried to alter the flight altitude on the FMC for just the FIRST LEG of my trip and this time, FS2004 FROZE so badly that I had to press the reset button as CTRL-ALT-DEL did not bring up task manager to do an end task. Also, I noticed something else which relates to why I tried to alter the first leg parameters in LEGS page to begin with: When I altered the altitude and speed for the other legs there were NO FREEZES and the CDU took them happily. BUT, altering the altitude and speed of the SECOND leg for some reason CHANGED the altitude and speed of the FIRST leg to BE EQUAL to that of the SECOND leg!!! The FIRST LEG is BEFORE the top of descent. CDU displayed the correct econo speed of 0.839 MACH / FL350 before I changed the second leg which also showed 0.839/FS350. But the second leg is AFTER the T/D so I naturally decided to alter and enter the correct altitude and speed I wanted for the distance remaning. Here is what I did:LEG 1 - 0.839 / FL350 (before my modification to leg 2)LEG 2 - 0.839 / FL350 (before)** LEG 1 - 300/25000 (AFTER my moficiation to leg 2 only as I do with the PMDG 744 FMC all the time without problems)** LEG 2 - 300/25000 (after)When trying to change LEG 1 back to what it was originally, FS2004 froze.### NOTES: (1) I replaced MY AIRAC with the one downloaded from the navdata.at site, so I no longer use the one which comes with PSS in case it was corrupt as mentioned. (2) FSUIPC version 3.50John

[Byrna 0]

Hello,I encounted an issue last week when flying at cruise altitude with the 777LR:When I try to alter the speed/flight altitude of the leg to which the plane is CURRENTLY FLYING TO (i.e. showing in the FMC as the current leg -first on top of legs list), FS completely locks up, requiring CTRL-ALT-DEL - task list/manager - end task. FS shows up as "not responding" in the currently active applications list in task manager.After trying it again the next day, same thing happened. I can alter the parameters of any of the other legs, but not the current leg. Has anyone else had this issue? I can alter the current leg's parameters in the PMDG 747-400 so I assumed I could do this with the 777 as well, seeing that the FMCs are very similar and that Boeing probably made them similar too. If it is not possible by design, the FMC should at least give an error msg. something like "not allowed".John

[Guest Knikolaes]

Okay PSS -- hope this helps:I just did my route finally from KIAH to KEWR. The ONLY thing I excluded was that VOR. I had precisely the following data in my FMC:KIAH DCT LFK J101 MOTLY J29 MEM J42 GVE DYLIN2 KEWRI entered the route as above in the FMC, then entered the following:KIAH 085/10My departure was runway 9 hence the 085 radial for the runway clearance.I also selectd runway 4L for landing at KEWR and selected to go straight from DYLIN to CF04L, deleting 2 waypoints there.I had an initial flight level of 390 then a step climb to 430.NO FREEZES - including a successful step climb.If it helps you folks out -- I do NOT think it is the FMC. I actually think it is touchy NAVDATA. The ONLY thing I ommitted from this flight that kept freezing all the others was the RBV VOR. I think that navaid is corrupt somehow and other navaids must be corrupt as well.For those folks getting freezes in their FMC's, try a different departure or approach. It may be a corrupt waypoint.FYI I am using Navdata 0510, and am about to update to 0511 as we speak (now that the navdata site is back up). However I have noticed folks with freezes using multiple issues of Navdata. So it must be the routing somehow.Anyway I thought I would post this here as I am sure after all of this that it is the navdata, not the FMC, that is wreaking havok.

[Guest pedroz]

Hello:I am happy to see that PSS will consider this issue as it sees that the freeze occurs in many different ways:One thing is for sure:You can do any thing and it wont freeze before puting all performance parameters. THE ISSUE IS WHEN INTRODUCING COST LEVEL. I have observed that once you put 80% or 100% or what ever value you might get a freeze clearly as described;One additional element in the way ithas occuredto me: In order to avoid overshooting up to following waypoint jumping the inmediate next way point(I put a thread where I did not get any answer from PSS) I tried a trick which consisted in putting twice the same waypoint, in order to prevent the overshooting and simulate a fly-over WAYPOINT. My freezes come as soon AS I wanted to change or even DELETE the duplicated waypoint. Sometimes during a flight planning you might leave a duplicated waypoint while adding waypoints.Since THEN I pay much attention not to duplicate waypoints I have been able to tackle the problem so farAnyway the ggodnews PSS has got into it and hopefully it will be in the patch Cheers Pete

[Byrna 0]

Christopher and PSS staff:It cannot be the Navdata in my opinion - see my posting from Nov. 17 (#21). I used CUSTOM waypoints which I entered myself using compass bearing points (e.g. S2145.6W14934.5). These waypoints do not even exist in navdata.In fact, ALL THREE waypoints I used (for a simple linear trip with no complicated approaches) were custom made so only the airports would be in navdata but none of the waypoints would be. I DID use a cost level of 100 so if it is related to cost level, I would have to try without entering ANY cost level in FMC (if it allows a blank there).John

[Guest Knikolaes]

In response to Pete and duplicate waypoints.Good observation. The only thing is in my case I had no duplicate wayp[oints on the route I was trying. I was merely adding the waypoints for the official ILS approach to the runway, and when I went to hit EXC that is when it freezes. As with my posts as well, I would concur this is a cost index issue, though, as it never froze while working wth the route -- ONLY when I hit EXC, which is when it makes the corrections ACTIVE and goes to calculate that updated set of performance perimeters.

[Guest Knikolaes]

>Christopher and PSS staff:>>It cannot be the Navdata in my opinion - see my posting from>Nov. 17 (#21). I used CUSTOM waypoints which I entered myself>using compass bearing points (e.g. S2145.6W14934.5). These>waypoints do not even exist in navdata.>>In fact, ALL THREE waypoints I used (for a simple linear trip>with no complicated approaches) were custom made so only the>airports would be in navdata but none of the waypoints would>be. I DID use a cost level of 100 so if it is related to cost>level, I would have to try without entering ANY cost level in>FMC (if it allows a blank there).>>>JohnAfter further testing I have to agree. As with above posts, as well as re-reading my own posts, I have to agree it is cost index and performance in the FMC. I was able to do the route, complete with the step climb and everything with no trouble at all, but for some reason when using the RBV VOR it had serious issues calculating the performance. The reason most of us are pointing to performance is the fact that w CAN edit the route withOUT freezes. It's when we hit EXC or enter a cost index that the freezes occur. This can mean only one possible thing -- performance calculation issue.

[Byrna 0]

Hi Christopher,Have you by any chance tried flying a route but leaving the cost index empty? ... or perhaps setting it to what may be considered a "default" value of 50?John

[Guest Knikolaes]

Nay -- I only used 100 and entered it every time. That is a good idea. I will try that tonight or tomorrow night.Just sitting there atthe gate, if I can enter the route WITH the RBV VOR with a cost index of 50 instead of 100 then I KNOW it is the CI.

[Guest Knikolaes]

As suggested I played with the cost index a bit. Now I am confused as I think it may be the ORDER of the procedure maybe?Here is what i did:-->FS Loaded-->Aircraft select (in this case 777-200LR)-->Location selected - Simflyers KIAH Gate E 21-->Connect external power, sec ext pwr and ext air-->BAT on-->Primary EXT PWR on and SEC EXT PWR on-->Open FMC-->Loaded saved route - KIAH-KEWR -- same route I had saved from the issue above-->ADIRS On-->POS Initialization-->Performance Init - entered ALL data EXCEPT cost index!-->Loaded required fuel - 19%-->Thrust limit - NO derates-->T/O Data - flaps 15 and 14% CG (I had custom loadout printed in my post above)-->LEGS - entered RBV, chose correct one (there are 2).-->Cleared discontinuity.-->EXEC - No freeze :-)-->Entered EMBAY, cleared Disc - again no freeze :-)-->Went back to PERF INIT - entered cost index of 50. No freeze.-->Entered cost index of 100 - no freezeIt was here that I was baffled that I had used the SAME waypoints that kept freezing the FMC before -- the ONLY difference was I did not do CI until absolutely last. I closed out FS and came straight here to post . . . I am wondering if maybe my waiting till last to enter the CI is what did the trick? Good info for PSS to look at? OH . . and BTW . . . SAVED that bloody route so I can just pull it up from now on LOL.BTW, PSS, sorry for my long posts -- just hoping some of this may or may not help some of us narrow posibilities until a fix is found :-)The only thing I havent gotten is changes in route AFTER cost index. I will try that Saturday.Good luck, folks. Hope this helps, and many thanks to John (Byrna) for the idea :-)