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We should be patient...

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Please dont lecture us on being patient, I have been patient, I havent contacted pss about the patch until a week ago. It is getting ridiculous now, I bought this plane in Novemeber and have not goten use out of it and now it is march. So please dont start lecturing me about waiting for the patch and explaing nonsence things to me, I am not 5 years old and I have dealt with many companys in my lifetime and I know what is legitimate and what isnt.

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I have read quite a number of the posts on this forum pertaining to the new release 777-200LR/300ER, and I must say, the reaction of some of the members of this community disappoints me.I firmly believe that PSS will come out with their patch for the 777 when it is ready, and am confident that it will address as many issues as have been suggested (within reason). Feedback given to PSS regarding their aircraft is very useful; since we ALL know that what happens in BETA testing on specific computers doesn't translate to our individual machines. However, what I find objectionable are the posts that demand answers, make statements to the effect that PSS should be more responsive because they make payware as opposed to freeware aircraft. I agree, PSS does have a responsibility to its customers. What we should appreciate is the "scope" of that responsibility. This is a $20-25 product. While that seems to be a lot of money to some of us (including myself since I am on long term disability and cannot work), we must put things here in perspective.Were this a REAL 777, and we were talking about a USD200M aircraft, yes, we would have a right to stomp our feet and get Boeing to fix the thing toot sweet. They work out the bugs and make the fixes much like PSS does; however, because it is $200M and there is a commercial interest involved for the customer, things happen pretty fast.However, this is a "virtual" 777; a pretty good one from my perspective. Yes, there are some things that could be better, but for $20, I'm not going to raise an issue of it, since most of them have been already brought up as feedback, and the one issue that I have with the aircraft I will discuss with them in due course, AFTER the current patch is finished. From what I see, PSS have done as good a job as they possibly can of attempting to appease everyone, answer questions (even the really dumb ones) while they attempt to rework and test those points that were raised in the feedback. To those of you who believe this is not good enough? Then perhaps you might try to put a 777 together yourself. My sense is that these guys all have other primary jobs and this is not their sole vocation (At $20/aircraft, noone is going to make a huge amount of money...I sincerely hope at least they cover their costs).So, as the title says, we should be patient. I certainly am. I've been around FS since the inception and there has been not one add-on aircraft that has come out that has been perfect from day one. Granted there are some that are better than others, but PSS aircraft by and large have been rock solid additions to an ever changing world of Flight Simulation. I have no doubt that the current issues will be solved; I'm also confident that they will address some of the additional features for which people have been asking again and again.For now, let's give them the space to get it done. Let's quit hounding them about what's wrong with the product and give them a little support for what's RIGHT about the product, which is quite a lot. If you feel the urge to vent, don't direct it at these guys. They already have a lot on their plates between trying to fix the problems and address everyone's (valid) questions.To PSS: I am grateful that you have come out with a 777 product for FS9. I hope that you can arrive at a solution that will resolve the current issues and address some of the requests for changes that will make the product better. However, I would prefer that you take your time, get it right and then release it. I, for one, can live with it as is for now. If I have to wait awhile, that's no problem. To the rest of us: let's take a couple of deep breaths and work with the aircraft we have. It may have some bugs, but better to have an aircraft with a few bugs that we know about (and can work around for the most part) than not to have the aircraft at all. Please consider that before you whine and moan about not having that patch or why these problems weren't solved before the aircraft was released. Dave Lamb2404.png

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Dave,I agree with your sentiments in general. Flightsim addons are a special case, where the both makers and the customers are enthusiasts. However if products are released commercially, at whatever price, I think there is a duty to inform existing customers, but not the full transparency of the original 777 launch. There must be a middle path between that and complete secrecy. No promised released dates for sure, but perhaps rough estimates based on progress to date, which can be revised if need be. Such announcements would certainly keep most people from pestering PSS.I agree the 777 is very good as it is. I certainly don't agree with the perfectionists who won't use it until it is finished. Is there a better 777 out there? Sadly, the promise of significant improvement is enough to make even the best product look tarnished. No one said the patch would come out quickly, but people expected it might, and that is the root of the problem.I'm content with Norman B's latest answer and his subtle hints in response to my question about progress, so I will now return to waiting patiently like you.Kevin

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>Please dont lecture us on being patient, I have been patient,>I havent contacted pss about the patch until a week ago. It>is getting ridiculous now, I bought this plane in Novemeber>and have not goten use out of it and now it is march. So>please dont start lecturing me about waiting for the patch and>explaing nonsence things to me, I am not 5 years old and I>have dealt with many companys in my lifetime and I know what>is legitimate and what isnt.You have not "goten" any use out of it? Did PSS recall the 777? Nobody's stopping you using it unpatched. The 777 won't be 100% perfect post-patch I don't suppose. What will you do then?What is not "legitimate" about what PSS have done? You pay money, you get a product which basically works. Stop thinking about what you haven't got and think about what you have. Ok it's not perfect. No PC flightsim could come near being a complete simulation of a 777, how could it? It's silly to expect that. The best you can hope for is that what is simulated is reasonably accurate, not complete fiction, as with some other quite well respected sims.Glad you told us you were not 5 years old, I was beginning to wonder :)Kevin

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I dont want to fly a 777 that doesnt calculate corect eta for waypoints over the ocean. I want to have online tcas. I want a 777 that flys close to a 777 and not an f-16. So why would I want to fly the 777 without its patch? I happen to be someone who knows a thing or two about airplanes. I try to recreate realistic procedures as close to real as possible, the 777 doesnt allow me to do that because it doesnt work. Is there even still a patch? If you bought this plane to fly around and take screenshots and not to simulate flying the 777 than I can see why you would respond in the way that you did. And Norman you never responded back to my E-mail. Is it so much to ask to get an airplane that works as advertised?

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>I dont want to fly a 777 that doesnt calculate corect eta for>waypoints over the ocean. http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...g_id=6430&page=>I want to have online tcas. http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...g_id=6430&page=>I want>a 777 that flys close to a 777 and not an f-16. Have you flown both these types in the real world then?>So why would>I want to fly the 777 without its patch? I happen to be>someone who knows a thing or two about airplanes. Go on, I'm listening.>I try to>recreate realistic procedures as close to real as possible,>the 777 doesnt allow me to do that because it doesnt work. No? Thats not what you previously posted on this forum when you said"I have just done a flight from DEN to SFO on UA 777. The flight went pretty good, no issues deeming it unflyable." Or maybe when you wrote "I have just flown the 777LR from mia to den and the flight went smoothly. There were some issues, there was slight barely noticable bobbing at 390 during cruse, but again, barely noticable." you were only kidding?>Is there even still a patch? What do you mean still?>And Norman you never responded back to my E-mail. Is it so>much to ask to get an airplane that works as advertised?It does work as advertised for many, and, based on your initial posts I quoted earlier, for you too. As for not replying to your last email, the short answer is you won't get a reply. Tell me what it is that makes you think I or any of the support team would answer such a vile email? Simply put, you want to swear, keep it for your school yard. Your paying for an addon doesn't entitle you to think you can write abuse.

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Dave, some good points made in an intellegent manner. However, I do take issue with some of them and I hope you don't mind hearing my views.>However, what I find objectionable are the posts that demand>answers, make statements to the effect that PSS should be more>responsive because they make payware as opposed to freeware>aircraft. Why? We all understand that EVERY FS9 product, including FS9 itself, will need a patch or three after release. However, the PSS T7 has been out for over four months now and there has been nothing. There is no info on their web site either. People who have paid for a product have the right to ask questions.>This is a $20-25 product. WHAT? Where did you get that kind of discount? Have you even bought it? The base price for one model with NO liveries is

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>I happen to be someone who knows a thing or two about airplanes. I >try to recreate realistic procedures as close to real as possible,>the 777 doesnt allow me to do that because it doesnt work.What, and the rest of us are idiots who DON'T?Sorry to burst your bubble matey, but most of us know a thing or two about airplanes. That's why we're here. You're no more knowledgable than the rest of us. Unless, as Norman says, you have some 'stick' time on the T7 in real life? ;-)I don't often post here as I have made a personal decision to fly the T7 only once the patch is released, WHENEVER that is. I look forward to it in fact. My few initial flights were full of promise and I have every confidence that the promises will be realised by the patch. It was FAR from unflyable, but I'm happy to sit on it until the few issues were resolved.The original poster was trying to call for a bit of calm and all you could think to do was stomp on it, it was totally uncalled for.

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Simon,>To right it is, in fact it's the most expensive FS aircraft on>the market.Actually that moniker is retained for a certain 737 which if you lose the downloaded file the recommendation is to claim from your house insurance!>Yes, it's VERY good (on the ground). Too many compliments in one week Simon - steady on please ;)>Me too, don't get me wrong, i'm sure the day will come that>it's fixed and it'll be one of, if not the, best FS9 aircraft>available.We build aircraft for people to fly. Who cares if there is a modelled WC?! As simmers our aim is just like each and everybody else - to have an addon that looks good, works well and doesn't hammer the frame rates.>Work with the aircraft I have? It won't stay at a steady>cruise and is nearly impossible to land. At this risk of saying "mine works" - loads of folks are able to land this time and time again. Thats not to say that things couldnt have been improved, especially given that they have.>These are my personal opinions, they are not ment to offend>anyone, I'm just voicing an honest view of how I feel. And thats completely acceptable Simon. I've constantly said constructive criticism is very much welcomed.

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Well, I certainly opened a can of worms.First, a couple of "mea culpas":To Simon Cove: You are correct; I forgot to look at the price of the PSS 777 before I posted, its about $38.00US.Second, to Norman and the folks at PSS: I am truly sorry. I did not know that my post would create the replies that I have seen so far. They run the gambit, from supportive at one end to critical and insulting at the other.There is not ONE manufacturer of a FS aircraft that has put out a perfect product the first time. There are things that happen on our computers that do not happen in the BETA process; the feedback that they receive from us is critical to resolve issues and create patches and updates to either correct problems common to certain computers or enhancements that add value to that for which we have already paid.What is not OK is to berate people because they cannot get something done fast enough. Yes, it has taken a long time to resolve some of these issues. To be candid, I have a few of the issues that have been detailed on this forum, but not all. While I am not that familiar with the programming process, it has been my experience that if a fault cannot be reproduced by the vendor; its hard to fix it. Some faults require complicated programming, and reprogramming and to a certain degree it is trial and error. PSS understands fully the business risk they have run by not getting a patch out quicker. However, I stand behind what I have said. I would rather they spend another six months getting it right than to put out a patch that doesn't solve the problems or creates others.Yes, we have a right as customers to expect a product to work when we purchase it. However, as members of the FS community, we should know that these kinds of issues exist and that is the risk we run when we purchase a product when it is initially released. If you want a perfect product, wait six months before you purchase it. By then, most of the bugs should be worked out if it.Every post about when this patch is coming out that requires them to respond takes resources away from solving the problem. Therefore, anyone on this forum who attacks PSS in such a way is actually contributing to the delay in the release of the patch. This will be my last post on this subject (I didn't think I would have to make a second one...). So let me say it again: Give these guys some space to work. For those of you who have responded in a negative way to my original post, please understand this: I will respect and defend your right to express your opinion, so long as it is not malicious. I respect differences of opinion and good honest debate. However, if you post simply to "stir it up", then expect to get called on it. I tried politely to communicate this the first time. This time, I'm being more direct. If you consider that a lecture, get over it.PSS, hang in there.baw7162404.png

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Simon,Forgive me for not spelling your last name correctly. Another "mea culpa".

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'Toot Sweet' - now there's one I've not heard in a while - I'm shocked Norman has allowed the use of such language :+ As one of those that can in fact 'land the T7' (ironically it lands more smoothly than another high end bird I enjoy), I'm truly sorry that not all of us find the aircraft useable, and I hope too that all will be well after the update.regards,MarkXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1024mb/X700pro256

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Actually that moniker is retained for a certain 737 which if you lose the downloaded file the recommendation is to claim from your house insurance!That was funny Norman...good one!

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... "Nobody's stopping you using it unpatched"...Sorry, The T7 is unusable. Any random touch on FMC can freeze the FS, (then I have to restart PC), all autoland landings are hazardous. I am flying online only and these bugs are for online flying and online events really unacceptably...to BAW716: Dont compare 20 dollars and 200M dollars. Count how many people purchased this product. (thousand, more ?) I can sneeze at 20 dollars, but company can not sneeze at maybe hundred thousand...Do not look on people from this forum only. There are many many of other, who can not speak english and there are also dissatisfied.I can understand that PC product neednt work properly. I can understand that correction need some time. OK. But the company must compensate this. So why PSS did not afford some discount for B777 owners f.e. for their other product or anything as excuse?I like all PSS products and I will prefer them in future. But this accession to customers may practise developers of "add-ons for free" not commercial company.So dont say more:Be patient... or The patch will be done as late as will be done.

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Please dont forget to sign your posts.Re your call to compensate, what benefit would a livery be since you say the aircraft is unusable? How would you define who got (example) a free livery?In answer to your finding things unflyable and these random lockups - have you followed the procedures outlined in the sticky post at the top of this forum?

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Hi Norman,first, it is hard to say in english what I feel in my language. That was my first post in this forum - thats mean I was patient enough since Nov.2005. Be sure, all of my add-ons are A320, Concorde, WA 777Pro and 747Pro (FS2002) and now T7. So I am the most patient and loyal customer of PSS :() That is why I feel so bad about this situation and about PSS corporate culture...I neednt any livery for free. I am using my own livery of our Virtual airline. (if this is the question)Yes I tried to change "general factor" to smooth autolands, but doesnt work properly enough. I need safe aircraft, I dont want be the only one from group, who crashed or had to disconnect during the online events more. I can excuse any visual bugs (for ex. weather radar, TCAS and so on) but I am scared to fly with the aircraft like this. So I returned to fly A320. But 5 months is to long time for me too.

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Dodge,Be sure your English is better than my Slovacian!I personally am a big Airbus fan but was fortunate to not witness these issues. Be happy to know that you should be able to fly your 777 in a few short days.

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I bought both versions of the 777 when they first came out and there are problems but getting worked on.The more we argue the more we b***h and the more time PSS has to read all this c**p is the less time their spending working on a patch to fix the problems.Lets stop sounding like screaming 6 yr olds and more like adults and just wait till its ready. Jeff

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Wether you people like it or not, agree or disagree with what these people are upset about there is one thing you dont seem to understand.They have a legitimate gripe some are just better at conveying it in a rational matter. No 4 months is not ok. I personally cant remember the last time I loaded this airplane up in FS. Does that make me a bad person? If so whatever. You have no beef with the length of time the fix has taken cool more power to ya, other people do and they, just like you, paid for a product and can express their dissatisfaction all the want provided its professional.Calling them 6 year olds is silly and really quite childish.

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>I dont want to fly a 777 that doesnt calculate corect eta for>waypoints over the ocean. I want to have online tcas. I want>a 777 that flys close to a 777 and not an f-16. So why would>I want to fly the 777 without its patch? I happen to be>someone who knows a thing or two about airplanes. I try to>recreate realistic procedures as close to real as possible,>the 777 doesnt allow me to do that because it doesnt work. Is>there even still a patch? If you bought this plane to fly>around and take screenshots and not to simulate flying the 777>than I can see why you would respond in the way that you did. >And Norman you never responded back to my E-mail. Is it so>much to ask to get an airplane that works as advertised?Are you the same pilot53 that posted this question last October:"I keep hearing so much about this center post, i'm not familiar with the 777 but hope to be soon, what is the center post?" How come you're such an expert now? From your other posts it's clear you've actually flown the PSS 777 quite a lot.Re alleged F-16 handling, if you put in large control wheel inputs, the 777 may well roll quite fast, especially clean at high airspeeds (not as fast as a real F-16 of course, but maybe faster than you expect). Real airliner pilots fly using small, smooth control inputs. Flown in this way, I find the PSS 777 hand flies very well. Perhaps you need a few lessons in flying heavy jets?BTW, just what are the "thing or two" you do know about airplanes? :)Kevin

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>Simon,>Forgive me for not spelling your last name correctly. Another>"mea culpa".>You're forgiven!Norman, thanks for your reasonable reply to my points. I couldn't care less about a 'VWC' (Virtual Water Closet) either! I respect PSS' attention to the detail in the systems that realy matter and am sure it'll be the BEST FS9 heavy when the patch is released.Lets all stay friends and hope it comes out soon.Simon D

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