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Byrna

FMC legs modifications did NOT freeze FS-results of my testing last night

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Hello PSS and everyone on this forum:I had posted a problem on this thread ==>http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=search...which was reported by many people about modifications to the legs of the flight plan in the FMC freezing FS2004 on the 772LR.Last night, I decided to try some tests, making sure my PERF INIT weights (GTW/ZFW etc...) were correctly entered by using the REQUEST button.I was quite happy that no freezes occurred after several attempts at modifying leg altitudes, SIDs, STARs at several different stages of a partial flight. I loaded an FS flight plan, no weather (std. clear weather, no Active Sky or any other weather engine loaded), and disabled my Zone Alarm Firewall but had my Anti-virus (McAfee) enabled; connection to the internet via cable modem was active.I tested both on the ground with just APU running and after take-off by altering SIDs, runways, and STARs which were already previously entered in the initial flight plan. I even changed altitude/speed restrictions on several legs on the descent/approach phase of the flight plan - no freezes at all.*** My question to PSS is the following: Have you been able to find at least some situations where you got freezes with the FMC/CDU? If so, have you been able to find a fix for it in the upcoming patch?NOTE: I will also test using the way I used to fly - with ASV6 (Active Sky 6) active, both my Firewall and Anti-virus active to see if this may be a resource contention issue. This may mean the CDU is using up too much CPU/memory resources and under times of heavy system loads (reduced performance), freezes may occur as the CDU tries to calculate alterations to the FP. But, this may also be an issue with incorrect INIT PERF weights entered as I had noted in a previous posting.Regards,John

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John,As much as I would love to be here 24/7 sadly I can't :)The lockup should be addressed in the patch. A couple of nights ago we saw it reappear but this has since been addressed again - it failed on a speed restriction in the SID whilst having a high CI.

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Norman,It's good to know you don't work 24/7 for I would never have expected that from a human being :)) I was just anxious :-hmmm that's all...It's a relief to learn that PSS was able to duplicate this problem for it is probably the single (and for me pretty well the only) most destructive issue with the 777 which prevents us from flying the plane. At least with the oscillation issue, I immediately switch to a lower acceleration setting to fix it (e.g. from 16x to 8x usually stops the oscillations right away) and the flight is not interrupted. IN fact, switching back to 16X again could result in continuing the flight without the oscillations returning.John

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Hello Norman (or others working on the 777 patch at PSS):I hope your minds are not turning to mush or insanity setting in trying to get the patch to work on the 777 for based on what I've read, FDE and panel programming is a really challenging on complex endeavor! :)I had a situation with the CDU/FMC after a spur-of-the-moment and completely unplanned flight this morning that I thought I'd tell PSS about. It may help narrow down the conditions under which the CDU does NOT freeze... (yes another flight with no freezes like the one which started this post).I started with the PMDG 737-700 at Schipol Amsterdam (EHAM) using Netherlands 2000 version 2.92 scenery. I have the default MSFS Cessna 172 set as my default flight so the engines were running but I used ASV6 for real-time weather but without the Active Radar open. I was taxiing to the runway at Schipol to take-off to test frame-rates and switched to the 772LR to see if frame rates changed. They did drop about 10-15% but that's not the point of this post.HERE ARE THE DETAILS: * I had full fuel (about 351,000 lbs, due to default flight having full fuel).* I had not entered ANYTHING in the CDU and was flying full manual on take-off and switched to manual MCP control; so no weights, no INIT REF, no flight plan, no VNAV, no route, no legs).* After take-off, tried to enter route EHAM-EGLL in the CDU ROUTE page, then switched to manual MCP control with heading, speed, altitude.* Then entered STARs for Heathrow in the CDU using DEP/ARR page - no problems, no freezes. Still no weights entered. * Then initially dumped some fueld as I would be way too heavy for landing weight for such a short distance but this took too long so I reset the fuel manually through the settings to 60,000 lbs - STILL NO INIT REF WEIGHTS nor VNAV parameters entered. Only the legs and departure/destination airports entered in CDU.* I switched the arrivals for London Heathrow several times from one runway to another, then used several different STARs and deleted the legs of the STARs in the LEGS page to remove discontinuities - no freezes at all. Please note that a complete flight plan was not entered in the CDU (not a typical procedure obviously) - only the legs of the final STAR and runway).* To be specific: I deleted the unwanted legs by selected the desired leg, then clicking the LSK left next to the leg I wanted to delete, thereby moving up the desired legs of the newly selected STAR as per the manual, then deleting the discontinuties if any. I even added individual legs at one point and deleted them also.Basically, I landed at Heathrow without any freezes after numerous manipulations of the legs in the CDU. I did NOT modify any altitudes nor speeds in the legs as I was flying without VNAV.Perhaps this may shed some light into your troubleshooting work with the CDU freezes...Take care,John

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Norman,I also wanted to add a situation about my flight of last night which DID result in a freeze when working wiht the CDU.A fully planned flight (unlike the one above from EHAM-EGLL) from CYUL - EHAM. The freeze occurred only when I modified the STAR for EHAM from the existing one to another STAR and I had to reset the computer as CTRL-ALT-DEL simply did not get a response. The other thing was this: As I was manipulating LEGS or switching from one page to another in various sections of the CDU (e.g. switching from VNAV to PROG to INIT REF to DEP/ARR etc...), the CDU would not respond to my mouse clicks and would momentarily freeze; then the requested page would display after a delay of perhaps 15 seconds or so and the flight would be uninterrupted. THis is not the same as the complete freeze up but may be related.John

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To add to the above posting for the CYUL - EHAM trip: The freeze occurred when I simply added a STAR when there was already a STAR for EHAM, hoping to delete the old star AFTER I added the new one. I did not even modify the altitude / speed of this new STAR for before that, it froze. However, there WERE some altitude/speed restrictions already on the legs of the existing old STAR before the addition of the new STAR.Hope this helps. If you have any questions PSS staff, please ask me to clarify.Thanks,John

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John,The only place we have seen a freeze with our current build is when the SID/STAR had a restriction above what is entered - ie if a SID has a 6000' restriction and we have entered 5000 as our cruise (yes, thats the limits some prople will go to break these things!) then things locked up.

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Hi Norman,I did not think I had anything to add to your post above regarding when PSS encountered freezes with leg modifications in the CDU but I do have one question regarding my problems:I do get freezes when, as stated above, I change one STAR for another. Did PSS never get a freeze after this manipulation? I believe some people are getting freezes like mine and in other situations. So you're saying you cannot duplicate the problem of changing STARs based on changing wind/ATC instructions (a realistic fact in everyday flying and online on VATSIM as well, unless the pilot files NO STAR but this is usually required in case of loss of communication from what I've read, at least in Europe).If changing a STAR for another one, resulting in TWO star legs temporarily appearing in the CDU legs page, PSS test lab does not get a freeze, any suggestions about the cause or do you feel your patch should address most (if not all) possible scenarious of CDU freezing the simulation?John

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John,As a matter of course I change STARs all the time to see them painted on the ND. And no, aside from once early in beta testing (it was going into Heathrow online) I have not had it lock up.

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Good day! I'm loving the 777. Ran into an issue today:I'm using v1.1 as that was in the installer that was downloaded. Today was the third flight for me, and this was a planned, long one: KORD->EGLL. I chose the STAR (just the arrival without a runway specified) en route which worked successfully. However, when I attempted to select the runway prior to flying the STAR, FS froze beyond recovery. That was seven hours into my flight. (I use autosave so I was only down about five minutes restarting FS)Is EGLL the common denominator?

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<>I had the same problem you had, but the destination was KSWF. The flight originated at KPHX.

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