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777 review on main AVSIM site

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Ehh, I hate Avsim. Hate the people who run it, the way they do it - I no longer upload my work to Avsim.The reviewers here are just stupid. They seem to have very (or none in fact) of real aviation. Everything is "eye candy" to them, they don't care how realistic it is.This post could go so much longer if I wanted to, but I just want to share my thoughts.Oh, and Tom - before you kick me off this forum, I don't go to any other boards, just the PSS one.I suggest PSS move their forum somewhere else, or better yet - get their own one.

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>Here's the summery from the review by Jean-Claude Bailly,>AVSIM Staff Reviewer.>>What I Like About The 777 Professional> >1,First integrated weather radar in the ND >2,Good overall FPS performance (see comparisons above) >3,Great user friendly setup utility from within the cockpit >4,A complete list of keyboard commands for those using FS>hardware >5,Excellent panel and gauge rendering both in 2 and 3 D >6,Very good cockpit lighting >7,Package offered at a good value for money by Just Flight >8,Good documentation and tutorial > >All good to see recognised, I particularly like items 1 and 3,>unique and very usefull.>>Point 7 though, this from the main text, "This Just Flight>package offers the three 777 versions i.e.: 777-300 ER,>777-200LR, 777-200LRF (freighter) sold for a price of

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Whats wrong with you guys? If you dont see the problems he is refereing to with this product, you are both naive and ignorant. Ill never buy a PSS product until i see a patch that fixes this system.

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>Ill never buy a PSS product until i see a patch that fixes this system.There wont be another product until the 777 is patched ;)

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I believe that Simon should be answerd don't you think Norman?Fernando

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>I believe that Simon should be answerd don't you think>Norman?I had previously seen the review and didnt catch Simon's question, even though he recently mentioned to me that he doesnt have a copy of the 777.Remember that the points the reviewer lists are his personal opinion.1,Sound environment before engine start is missing777 remains true to life - a quiet cockpit.2,No co-pilot calls for speeds on TONo copilot fitted.3,No push back utilityNeither does the real aircraft.4,Logo light not isolated and remaining on at nightNo change - we prefer to use custom work elsewhere. Feedback also shows that people PREFER to see the tail lit.5,No TA/RA TCAS modelledTA always worked offline. Now works online also.6,No Fix page on the CDUDuring beta this was something a number of us asked for.7,All 8 doors on one commandRemains same.8,Defects found on the finished product released on CDWe dont produce a CD.9,FMC pages freeze at times after data input (occasional)Fixed.10,No correct destination runway info on CDU on INIT REF page (all flights)Fixed.11,Grossly wrong ETA calculations (only flights with step climbs)Fixed.12,Abrupt wing rocking on localiser (occasional with dense sceneries)13,773 ER oscillated during cruise and upon autoland glide interception (occasional, no rationale)14,On autoland, sudden dive for the runway threshold with a nose gear landing (occasional, no rationale) FDE completely rewritten.

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>I believe that Simon should be answerd don't you think>Norman?>>I had previously seen the review and didnt catch Simon's question, My main question was after this quote from the review,"This Just Flight package offers the three 777 versions i.e.: 777-300 ER, 777-200LR, 777-200LRF (freighter) sold for a price of

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Simon,>Would PSS like to explain how come I paid more than DOUBLE>that for the non CD download???That would be a question better aimed at Just Flight. We don't set their pricing structure. >To whom are you refering? I certainly DO have a copy and the>reviewer must have had one also.It was aimed at you Simon. A few days ago you and I chatted via email. I asked for your purchase details so that I could have sent you a copy of the patch. My understanding was you had the CD version. If I misunderstood then that offer still stands.no air con or other sound AT ALL?I dispatch aircraft in real life which gets me on the flight deck of many aircraft daily. Even with the packs on its eerily quiet inside a 777 with the door closed. The 777 pilots we had on the beta passed the same comments.fair enough, I either use FSP or>FSFlight Keeper which calls them out anywayMe too. Norman, a silly thing to>say. The REAL aircraft does not push back by the Pilot>pressing 'Shift P' either does it? This is a minor thing and>not that important but the 'ground from cockpit...' chat does>add to the atmosphere and I hope it will be considered for the>757.When pushing an aircraft back in real world we tell the crew where they are going based on comms with GND/TWR as appropriate. A PB utility is on my wish list for the 757. You may even get my dulcet tones recorded from a real push back :)Fair>enough again, I like it lit too.>5,No TA/RA TCAS modelled>TA always worked offline. Now works online also.>Great!>6,No Fix page on the CDU>During beta this was something a number of us asked for.>and...?We didnt get it :(>7,All 8 doors on one command>Remains same. I can live with this but is a daft feature,>pull up to the gate and all the doors open. Would it have been>THAT hard to have the main door seperate from the rest?As above.True but you miss the tester's point.>He and the public at large, see a CD version as one that is>finished and that the orriginal programmers are happy with,>even if you didn't release it personaly, thus damaging PSS'>reputation further. How many CD purchasers don't even know>about the upcomming patch and just think that the PSS product>is crap?I can't comment on what people may or may not think. JF were involved in testing from the off and *they* were happy to go to CD.>You've always said that PSS encourages constructive critisism>and I hope you see this as such.We certainly do. I trust that my honest and frank answers suffice!

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>Whats wrong with you guys? >If you dont see the problems he is refereing to with this>product, you are both naive and ignorant. Ill never buy a PSS>product until i see a patch that fixes this system.Oh I see,so if you don't get the same faults as others (including you) it makes you naive & ignorant......Phil

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>So what is the Logo Light Switch in the cockpit for then if>the lights never goes out? Welcome to the AVSIM forums. Please dont forget to sign your posts as per our forum guidelines.As I said previously, based on feedback, people prefer to see the light on rather than off. Whilst the switch is there the thought was to ensure the custom functions (of which are limited in number) were used for things that are of more benefit to simmers.

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So what is the Logo Light Switch in the cockpit for then if the lights never goes out? Are you kidding me? ha!And for those of you who say you dont see anything wrong with the way this a/c performs, I really dont know what to say. No, I am not a real world 777 pilot, but I have seen videos (tons of cockpit videos) and in them, the plane doesnt jump all over the place. Everything seems smooth when you push buttons on the MCP to change heading, engage VNAV/FLCH etc etc. This PSS bird doesnt fly like that, and thats what people are complaining about. And just incase you are wondering, it can be achieved in FS because others have done

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See thats just it ..Like i said earlier that i try and try to recreate the problems that others are experincing. I have yet had my 777 Fly badly..And i fly it all over the place even into Sim Flyers Scenery.And i just dont have problems..And like i told NORMAN before. Was there away to uninstall the patch if i dont like it ...He said only if i make a back up the og which i have done.That way if the patch dont change things for me then i dont need it.

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Hmm....so are you saying that this 777 is as smooth as some of the recent paywares(Boeing) that were realeased? For example, when in cruise and I decide to descend using VNAV, which I have been told by real 777 pilots that it could be done, the a/c does not smoothly start the descent. This does not happen with my other Boeing aircrafts (payware). Its really strange how everything works well for you and not for most of us.

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I feel the same as most other people about this bird. I've posted in this forum about it also. Up untill the T7 I was always a big PSS fan and even promoted to my fellow flying buddies to buy their products.I have learned one thing lately, You can't win an argument with someone who thinks they are always right. I have yet to see a response from PSS that admitted to any fault on any subject. In other words they are perfect and incapable of making an error. one thing I can't figure out is that if PSS thinks and touts that their T7 isn't and never was broke ( none of them or the beta team had any problems ) then why in the h**l is it taking 5 months to fix it? How can the programmers find a fix for a problem they say never existed? magic I guess. How can you fix something that ain't broke?I'm a proffesional licensed aircraft mechanic, and I can't even do that? Also, I believe that even if the support team aggreed with any of our dissatisfied opinions, I doubt they would be free to express it in this forum for fear of being fired by the CEO. If the CEO refuses to publicly admit to his customers that he made a mistake in releasing the aircraft and apoligize to his loyal customers, then how can the support team say anything bad about the product! The leader of the company has to set the example.

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Garry,Agree with you about 100%But as we see... PSS lately behaves... strange. I don't think i need to tell you what this behavior comes close to.Norman,Just a comment about logo light. You say most of users want it lit. Norman... this is not freeware product. It is payware. It suppose to simulate things. Including small ones.Here we come to problem with a nice 757. Instead of letting your modellers and painters to create these cool visuals you could finally FIX the 777! Fix it visually too!Logo light. I want to switch it off at 10 000 feet. Yes i want that.Most of payware airliners have that. Why exactly PSS thinks it's different? Because of a price? Your price is not cheap at all for what i got here.I'd prefer to pay more to company that makes a bird that simulates real one.Not a simulating bird i can download for free here, at Avsim.Anyway, last few weeks on this forum was simply great. I fed up a lot.Don't know what will be on that patch but from what i read and hear'd... i doubt i want that patch at all already.What it fixes?What it improves?What new futures we, customers get from PSS as an excuse for unprecedented emm... thing, that we got for a lot of money.I get the feeling it fixes bugs and that's it.Excuse me, for nearly 40 U.S. Dollars i get completely unreal bird that isn't fly.Visual model of ancient history.None of modern futures that really supposed to be there. FMC that better not to be touched to evade Crash To Desktop.A few "Flight Sim firsts" that i anyway can't use because the bird is not realistic. Waiting for the patch for 4 month and GOD knows how much more.Can someone please answer me a question what exactly i pay'd 40 dollars for?Norman, i do hope i'll get answer from you on this one.Thank you.

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Hello,You want to simulate reality to nth degree? If so why on earth do you then go out of the cockpit and onto the wing at 10,000 to see if the light is on? If you want to be so realistic, flick the switch and then forget about it.It really annoys me these people who go on about how this isnt realistic and that isnt realitic and then go onto to become so hypocritical for other things they blatently disregard.Surley each time you fly the aircraft there should be wear and tear visable.The registration and the SELCAL should be visable and change with the model.Oxygen system should be modelled and when the crew don the mask your view point is limited.These are all minor points that have been missed and therefore make the simulation unrealistic and a complete waste of money? As you say yourself its meant to simulate the small things?T7

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>What it fixes?>What it improves?>What new futures >I get the feeling it fixes bugs and that's it.It would seem your definition of patch isnt the same as mine or any reasonable thinking person. In my eyes, a patch is to fix things that are not working as we had planned. It is not to add extra features.

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>>What it fixes?>>What it improves?>>What new futures >>I get the feeling it fixes bugs and that's it.>>It would seem your definition of patch isnt the same as mine>or any reasonable thinking person. >>In my eyes, a patch is to fix things that are not working as>we had planned. It is not to add extra features. No PSS has its own very limited interpretation. Those companies that care always add fucntionality and a few little extras in to their patches. (Fix page on the CDU anyone?) Of course those companies also actually produce a patch and care about the consumer. PSS is in its own universe where they have no obligations.

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>>What it fixes?>>What it improves?>>What new futures >>I get the feeling it fixes bugs and that's it.>>It would seem your definition of patch isnt the same as mine>or any reasonable thinking person. >>In my eyes, a patch is to fix things that are not working as>we had planned. It is not to add extra features.Norman,Didn't you announce that you were going to enable the FIX page in the patch that is coming up? If so, isn't that "adding" a feature to the a/c?

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Personally I wish the tail splash could be turned off too, and that all lights were in fact operable as per the real thing. Yes we all have to use our imaginations to somre extent in fs, but I think our expectations have been primed by other developers, so we expect these things from ALL upper end players. I've accepted that PSS is not like them, they will blow you away in one respect and leave you scratching your head or wishing for more in another :) (all doors bladebladelah...)I think it's important to understand this is an extremely subjective hobby and we all have differing likes/dislikes, things that help our individual imaginations fill in the gaps. We ought to respect that in one another even if we just don't get it.regards,MarkXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1024mb/X700pro256p.s. - for those unaware, the T7 logo and wing lights operate the light SOURCES on the horiz stab and fuse respectively, they just have no effect on the coressponding SPLASHES, or lack thereof.

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>You want to simulate reality to nth degree? If so why on earth do >you then go out of the cockpit and onto the wing at 10,000 to see >if the light is on? If you want to be so realistic, flick the >switch and then forget about it.>It really annoys me these people who go on about how this isnt >realistic and that isnt realitic and then go onto to become so >hypocritical for other things they blatently disregard.Mr T7 i would like to remind you of something Norman forgot to remind you, sign your posts please. Its forum rules. I'm surprised Norman didn't reminded you of it.Besides that, all top players added full control of the lights system to their models. Why exactly PSS should be different?>In my eyes, a patch is to fix things that are not working as we had planned. It is not to add extra features.Norman, if that's the definition of patch in your eyes after all damage that was done by PSS to itself, it is truly regretful.Randy agree 100% with you.>Didn't you announce that you were going to enable the FIX page in the patch that is coming up? If so, isn't that "adding" a feature to the a/cNo it's not adding a future. It's meeting customers demands.PSS announced their bird will be closely modelled to real one.From one side its completely impossible... LR version is still in Boeing's development and not flying for airlines, so how exactly they modelled it i don't know. From other side... they forgot to add so many things that actual T7 have it can hardly be called payware, not speaking about exact model and even not touching visual model issue. Visual model is a complete joke.They don't even thought to rework it. What a shame. :(Just a comment: Did you noticed how many people merged visuals from other freeware developer that released product in 2003 with PSS bird?And how many new paints got released not for PSS but for that freeware developer bird that was developed in 2002 and released a fix in 2003?Can you imagine that same situation with other top players?I can't.PSS was once a great company that made revolution in Flight Simulator environment. Unfortunately i see that these times is really gone and not so much left to expect from PSS these days.It is greatly unfortunate. PSS was one of my favorite developers for its care for details, frame rates and customer support at the same time.Any plans to return to these exellent days when PSS products was greatly expected and met customers expectations?Respectfully

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>Norman, if that's the definition of patch in your eyes after>all damage that was done by PSS to itself, it is truly>regretful.PATCH= (n.) Also called a service patch, a fix to a program bug. A patch is an actual piece of object code that is inserted into (patched into) an executable program. Patches typically are available as downloads over the Internet.I don't see anything in the definition about adding features or anything else, that would be called an "Upgrade".PSS are rightly calling it a Patch, and yes it will do exactly what it says on the tin, by patching the problems people are having with it.> LR version is still in Boeing's development and not flying for airlines, so how exactly they modelled it i don't know.PIA are currently operating 2 777-200LRs in commercial service, and the systems are identical, all that is different is the EFB and slightly different computer systems, which pilots don't see, otherwise its pritty much identical from a Flightdeck POV and it handles much like all the other T7's, hence you can fly all of them, after 1 day in the class room!>Visual model is a complete joke.>They don't even thought to rework it. What a shame. :(Yes there are a few niggly bits, like the landing gear being to long and a few other things, otherwise its a pritty good model, and the 757 model looks a #### of a lot better, so PSS are getting somewhere with thier models.>Did you noticed how many people merged visuals from other freeware developer that released product in 2003 with PSS bird?PSS released thier first 777 ins 2001/early 2002 for FS 2000 PATCHED for 2002, the visual model was NEVER EVER going to be of the standard we have today, and what they did for 2000/2 was the best you could do at those stages, when new better models came out it was a logical choice to merge, you don't expect a developer to go back to thier 200/2002 package and make a new model as it would take months to do!>they forgot to add so many things that actual T7 haveExcluding the FIX page on the CDU and a TA/RA TCAS, what was missed?I have an accurate PFD and ND, EICAS does its job, the E Checklist is that of British Airways, the overhead panel does what it needs to do, exclding the logo light, I'm not fussed as you fly from the flightdeck, not spot plane view.Cheers

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we have never said that the Fix page would be added, there is Far too much programming and dev time involved to make this "addition" therefore it will NOT be added

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And that is why your nothing close to the top developers. How can you even consider the CDU complete without something such as the fix page modelled? Its something I use on every flight.

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