777 review on main AVSIM site

[Guest Davidoff]

Thanks for your explanation. It really explains how developers go about their business. However, I dont think its the customers fault(system issues) when the plane is wobbly because for example, I dont have to change any FS settings for my other add-ons(a/c), which I must say are in the top 3 aircrafts out now for FS. So as far as im concerned it is an issue on the end of PSS and they must rectify that. Thank you though for the info.

[Guest simonmd]

"I think from reading this thread from beinning to end, it would be important to note that FS has he limitations of limited features per product in the SDK. A product modeler is limited insofar as to how many features they can put into the add-on product because of these limitations. Thus it becomesa choice of, "What do we add that sacrifices us adding other features"? "Sorry, with the greatest respect, RUBBISH! If this is the case, please tell me how another Payware maker, (naming no names because PSS deletes posts that do) that makes a larger Boeing aircraft, managed to do it with MORE features? With their aircraft, not only are the features mentioned above added but every passenger and cargo door can be opened SEPPERATELY with individual key commands or as a group, etc. It is also renowned for having an excellent and acurate exterior model and to be reasonably framerate friendly as well.Also, not only has there been a couple of FAST patches in responce to customer feedback but in LESS than the same time it has taken PSS to even bring out a PATCH, they have completed, released and PATCHED a new varient of the model that has more features, a different exterior model and a new soundset. If you look at their customer support forum, not a million miles away from this one, you will find satisfied customers glowing with praise for thier products and fast, curtious replies from their officials on any subject brought to their attention. This is something that they should be rightly proud of and that PSS should take note of.PSS, a serious suggestion for you that I hope you will consider and not take the wrong way as it's ment to be a compliment (sort of!).Give up making aircraft and specialise in panels and systems. Your Airbus panels are highly respected and personaly I think your present T7 panel is SUPERB! However, a common theme that keeps comming up, especialy in the VA that i'm a member of, is what aircraft the relavent PSS panel is MERGED with. Whenever a screenshot is posted of an aircraft with a PSS panel, 90% of the time the exterior model and flight dynamics have been junked in favour of a better Freeware one. In fact, I don't believe that I have EVER seen a screenshot of a PSS Airbus exterior on there.Doesn't this tell you something?Simon D.

[Guest Knikolaes]

David,Please don't get me wrong, as I never stated it was anyone's fault, customer or otherwise. I was just sharing the results i had with my system, and was trying to share a solutiong to at least stabalize it until the patch comes out. :-) I figured if it worked for me, hopefully it would work for others as well while awaiting the patch.Simon,I understand that pouint fully. I wasn't referring to any time reference at all or even referring to the patch. That part was aimed at a couple of questions as to why certain features are included when others are left out, and it is generalized, without regard to PSS or other developers. I just thought the info might help understand that area better.

[Guest Davidoff]

>Please don't get me wrong, as I never stated it was anyone's>fault, customer or otherwise. I was just sharing the results>i had with my system, and was trying to share a solutiong to>at least stabalize it until the patch comes out. :-) I>figured if it worked for me, hopefully it would work for>others as well while awaiting the patch.Chris, Im not attacking you. What I said was a "thank you" to you and went on to say that PSS has to fix the a/c so that customers woundnt have to go through this. Thats all I am saying.

[Guest Knikolaes]

Ah heheh. Okee. I need sleep. Yer welcome, David :-) After being awake for 22 hours sentences start to merge. LOL

[Guest freelancer]

Iain,Even Microsoft's definition of patch is different then yours.They add futures with their patches. Not even speaking of nearly ALL of world software developers.In Flight Simulation top companies it is a regularity already to add something with the patch to keep customers satisfied.So, i can't agree on your definition of patch.Iain, i have never spoke about 2002 PSS777 mergings. I was speaking strictly about 2004 PSS777 and certain freeware developer that made his initial T7 for FS2002 and upgraded it for FS2003 in early 2003.Do you think it's acceptable for today's payware company to release so ### visual model that customers merge it with freeware that was released a long time before PSS T7 for FS2004?>No one expects perfection, and people will always demand more no >matter how good we start out, but the 777 falls too far short for >the price, in many areas to be given any leeway here.Price of PSS bird isn't cheap at all.Patch taking 4 month... what are you fixing gentleman?I can't understand what takes you so long if you adding nothing, not improving visual model that is a complete shame for you.Norman,Idea of adding more futures for T7 in 757 release... that works only with another developer we both know. And they are very smart and careful not to use it with all of their birds, just with the same type.It will certainly never work in case of PSS. Customers forgive other developer for it because of complete exellence of their products. PSS isn't the case for such forgiveness.Christopher,Can't agree with you one any point. Just look at what other developers did for just a little higher price and how many patches they released in way shorter time then PSS take to release ONE patch that adds nothing and hopefully fixes something.Anyway, back to review topic. Reviewer was very polite with PSS, even generous.Respectfully

[Iain Sealey 1]

>Iain,>Even Microsoft's definition of patch is different then yours.>They add futures with their patches. Not even speaking of>nearly ALL of world software developers.>In Flight Simulation top companies it is a regularity already>to add something with the patch to keep customers satisfied.>So, i can't agree on your definition of patch.Its not mine! Thats from webopedia.comI'll now use the Main dictionary of the English Language, both Oxford and Cambridge dictonaries state:Patch (Computer)noun [C]a small computer program that can be added to an existing program in order to make the existing program work properly:Used in the context: I downloaded a patch from their website.Again, I see nothing about adding.>Idea of adding more futures for T7 in 757 release... that works >only with another developer we both know. And they are very smart >and careful not to use it with all of their birds, just with the >same type.How do you know that? If Norman thinks it can be retro fitted, it possibly can, its only a change in the Gauge file, not hard, the hard bit is the programming! You will be one of the first to praise PSS if they can do that, but I will state, they havn't said it WILL be done.Yes we are all getting a little tired of waiting, luckly us Brits are used to waiting, and good things come to those who wait, well in the UK they normally do!Cheers

[Guest Phoenix 1]

Gentlemen, With the greatest of respect to all we have two different camps here, One the one hand we have group A)"where is the patch, why is it taking so long, what are you fixing?"Then there is Group :("Why cant you add this, improve that and increase this?"Please, I ask you .. which way do we actually have to go to please everyone? It simply is not possible to please all the people all the time, Some will never be pleased, and some are already very happy :) We WILL release the "PATCH" very very soon as all we have left to do is final final testing, Once this is done, you will have itCheers

[Guest freelancer]

Hi Graham,Its my personal point of view, so it might not mirror everyone's but i think it is realistic to release one patch that fixes things users reported and makes the aircraft flyable.Then can be released a service pack 2 that improves visuals to today's standards, adds lights controls to today's standards and of course Fix page that is completley a must. I use it a lot, many other simmers use it a lot and in real world aviation it is used almost every approach to big airports.This way PSS pleases both groups, eliminates extreme "antique" feel of current T7 and of course getting prises from product users for their continuous support and devotion to their product.Needless to say however that timeline between patch and service pack can't be too long and of course final product must be released before 757 goes to sales.That way PSS not only undone all the damage done by too early release of T7 but also wins a lot of points in final customers eyes.Iain,You showed me dictionary meaning of patch. Tell me, how many dictionary or theoretic things actually exactly like it is there in real life?Lets not play semantic games and stick to real life.ThanksRespectfully

[Guest aarskringspier]

>Gentlemen, >>With the greatest of respect to all we have two different>camps here, >>One the one hand we have group A)>>"where is the patch, why is it taking so long, what are you>fixing?">>Then there is Group :(>>"Why cant you add this, improve that and increase this?">>Please, I ask you .. which way do we actually have to go to>please everyone? >>It simply is not possible to please all the people all the>time, Some will never be pleased, and some are already very>happy :) >>We WILL release the "PATCH" very very soon as all we have left>to do is final final testing, Once this is done, you will have>it>>CheersI seem to recall it being in "Final Testing" in February and in the "12th Hour." When do you stop the bs and just give us the straight scoop.

[Guest NormanB]

Actually it was 11th hour, I know since I posted it. That was the latter part of February and was around the same time as I privately invited a number of people from this forum to also test; in the main these were people who had reported issues that quite simply we hadn't seen.3 days ago (27th) what is hoped is a final gauge was released. This gauge takes into account the changes exhibited between the two sets of FDE. It doesn't include new features but, as I alluded, should the 757 come with a fix page its my desire to see that retro fitted to the 777. Like Graham has said, there are two seperate camps and it has always been our aim to firstly satisfy Group A. To continue the time analogy, which I resent the claim of BS since I tell it as it is, both within the team and here in the forum, it is bedtime. Rob Young, our new FDE specialist, writes ... will deliver the final 777 FDE's for all variants some time this weekend. I will then start the 757 first thing next Monday morning! Alex, our main Gauge developer is confident that all issues have been addressed, and, based on tester feedback being positive, I am quietly confident of the patch release in the next few days.

[Guest simonmd]

That is GREAT news Norman, thanks for sharing with us! A lot of people have got very frustrated by feeling 'left out of the loop', myself included. I fully understand that giving an exact release date that you can't be 100% sure of is asking for trouble but most would be happy with a rough estimate.The fix page and other details are issues that I hope you will deal with in the future but personaly, I have always seen the priority as being the FDE so most of us can just fly it!Simon D

[Guest NormanB]

>That is GREAT news Norman, thanks for sharing with us! Simon, its the least I can do and my pleasure.

[Guest aarskringspier]

>Actually it was 11th hour, I know since I posted it. That>was the latter part of February and was around the same time>as I privately invited a number of people from this forum to>also test; in the main these were people who had reported>issues that quite simply we hadn't seen.>>3 days ago (27th) what is hoped is a final gauge was released.> This gauge takes into account the changes exhibited between>the two sets of FDE. It doesn't include new features but, as>I alluded, should the 757 come with a fix page its my desire>to see that retro fitted to the 777. >>Like Graham has said, there are two seperate camps and it has>always been our aim to firstly satisfy Group A. >>To continue the time analogy, which I resent the claim of BS>since I tell it as it is, both within the team and here in the>forum, it is bedtime. >>Rob Young, our new FDE specialist, writes ... will deliver>the final 777 FDE's for all variants some time this weekend. I>will then start the 757 first thing next Monday morning! >Alex, our main Gauge developer is confident that all issues>have been addressed, and, based on tester feedback being>positive, I am quietly confident of the patch release>in the next few days.>>I call it as I see it to and thus far its all been smoke. 5 months Norman 11th hour 12th hour before the end of the month (February) etc etc etc. What would you call that?

[Guest Davidoff]

Just a few questions for you Norm,-Do you have a real 777 pilot on your "test" team-If yes, did the pilot(s) approve of the a/c before it was realeased, in terms of how it flew (FDE)Thanks!