Sign in to follow this  
Guest steveat27

Still some serious issues with this T7 :/

Recommended Posts

Ok, where to begin. I gave it sometime and finally you put the patch out. Heck, I had even reformatted my HD and reinstalled everything prior to this. So, I take the version 1 up and it did better than before but still had a few issues, but the patch was gonna make it all better, right? Well it almost did.The autothrottle still will not hold 250 or even close while under 10k. Just totally ignores the speed transition and shoots for the regular CLB2 speed I have set. I am flying up to 10k by hand while this is happening and yes I am keeping a steady pitch, it just still ingnores the below 10k trans. I have tried everything to keep it around 250 and nothing has worked.Also, it likes to set its own CRZ altitude regardless of what I put into my INIT PREF page. I set FL330 it changes all of my crz legs to FL410. So I go to change em and what do you know I get a freeze up. This is purely ridiculous. On this though, I think it may be related to Active Sky as it hangs that up too, so you may want to look into that. The VNAV likes to climb at insane rates still, say around 6000fpm sometimes and is anything but steady. How you have experienced none of this is beyond me. I haven't ever had serious issues this drastic with other payware. On the lighter side if these things were fixed this could potentially be a great aircraft for me. Sad enough, it appears that it may never happen, cause I probably won't be around in three years when patch 1.2 comes out.Stephen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Hello Stephen, "...The VNAV likes to climb at insane rates still, say around 6000fpm sometimes and is anything but steady..." Do you use a derated climb (and take off) these are VERY powerful engines, just like the real ones."...The autothrottle still will not hold 250 or even close while under 10k..." Are you checking/setting the 250/10000 restriction in the VNAV page, and using the derated climb with lighter loads?"...Also, it likes to set its own CRZ altitude regardless of what I put into my INIT PREF page. I set FL330 it changes all of my crz legs to FL410. So I go to change em and what do you know I get a freeze up. This is purely ridiculous. On this though, I think it may be related to Active Sky as it hangs that up too, so you may want to look into that..." We have tested with all versions of AVCTIVESKY 6... including beta version not released to the public. None of the testers have reported altitude changes... maybe you have missed a step along the way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

StephenYou may want to read my last post on the topic of "FPS Problems after patch". Reformating your HD and reinstalling was a draconian step. Of course, I've done it too (not because of the PSS aircraft), but with somewhat different results. You might find some of what is in that post (and others on that subject useful).There are a few minor bugs yet in the PSS777. Very few. A lot of it has to do with the operation of the aircraft. Please don't take this as a criticism of your flying skills...the PSS folks are right: The GE90 at full TO thrust and climb--if you don't have a full payload and a lot of fuel will climb like a rocket. Derated takeoffs are generally the norm unless you are very near MTOW or weather conditions are crap. Mind you, my experience with the bird is going to be different than yours because we have different computers with different configurations, etc.The patch solved a lot of problems and now that you've reformatted and reloaded everything...well, read the posts and you'll see what I'm referring to.Good luckDave Lamb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, first, I do use a derated climb. I have used TO1/CLB1 and TO2/CLB2. I can tell the difference between these and understand the power of the engines.I have set the 250/10000 restriction and it has the speed bug set which it blow right past on its way to 300+ KIAS. Shouldn't the speed transition already take care of that. Anyway I set the restriction and that wasn't it, ohh with derated climb also.What I meant was Active Sky may have involved the hangup not the changing of the FL. The altitude changes are real. I set the route, activate it. Fill in the INIT PREF page and THR LIM, then set up the TAKEOFF pages, come back and reselect my V1, VR, V2 at then go back to my route, sure enough FL410 for CRZ legs instead of 330. Now does the FMC choose a FL based on the weight cause this is a lighter load? Cause it shouldn't do this at all. This is when I tried correcting it and it froze on me, I think AS was writing to the stations at the time.If these things would work, this can be an enjoyable plane. As I have gotten it to autoland decently twice now and has flown reasonably well considering the VNAVs slightly unsmooth climb and descent rates.StephenAfter more testing, cause I thought the FL problem was due to loading the save route, it is continually doing the FL change and as I try to fix the legs page for the correct FL it freezes everytime now. This should not happen, period. This was suppose to be fixed in the patch but it has not. AS was not writing to the stations and this is purley in your FMC. Why it decided to start doing this is beyond me but hard to work on the other issues when I can't even get off the ground. Why does it not take FL330?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,I did not reload my comp for the purpose of the T7. That may have come out wrong. It had been about 1.5 yrs since I had loaded it up and there were many other issues. While I did have FPS problems at first, I reset a all of the Panel Setup refresh rates and seems to have fixed the issue.I also understand the derated thrust. See other post.Stephen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Programmed thrust derate alone is not going to be enough when climbing at a light gross weight. The derates are intended to provide a known performance benchmark for takeoff and obstacle climb performance with reduced thrust. But a lightweight jet, even at max derate, is still going to perform beyond the comfort limits of the pax.The solution, as in the real world, is to climb using managed climb at a reduced VS...my r/w rule of thumb is that anything above about 3000 fpm starts getting uncomfortable in back. You can go back to open climb in the low to mid 20s when the excess thrust margins are reduced.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Stephen,You have to bear in mind that the GE90 engines powering the new variants of the 777 are rated at 110,000lbs of Thrust each. Even if CLB2 is pre-selected prior to take off, at light weights, the aircraft is going to climb very rapidly, especially when VNAV is engaged in order to fly the optimum climb profile directed by the FMC. I would suggest that you follow Bob's advice above and use either FLCH or V/S mode to control the climb. Out of the two, I would recommend using V/S mode. You can then dial a suitable V/S into the MCP that is healthy yet more comfortable for both you and your virtual passengers.Regards,Lee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am glad I ran into this post. I did a flight and at clb2 I was doing 4700fpm. I was shocked at that. I was even heavy so I thought I was doing something wrong or the T7 had an afterburner :) Anyway I definitely need to start experimenting with different weights and assumed temps much as I did with the 767.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duh...I had just hopped over from the PSS Scarebus forum when I posted that last one, so still had 'bus on the brain. Managed climb is a 'bus thing...you want to use V/S climb in a 777. FLCH climb is a max power climb which sets climb power and flies the manually selected IAS/Mach...exactly what you do not want to use if the intent is to limit climb performance.The potential gotcha is that you have to watch the airspeed...the V/S mode will try to hold the selected climb rate at the expense of airspeed, so if you have a V/S selected that exceeds the climb capability of the jet at the selected airspeed, it'll push the power up as far as it can, then start hauling the nose up and sacrificing airspeed for climb rate until bad things start to happen.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No truer words were said. The V/S function has no reference whatever to speed...it merely climbs at the fpm you set. It does its best to provide power to fit in with this, but V/S is in effect a manual mode...the pilot is responsible for the rate of climb.Kind Regards,Rob Young

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I have found your problem area for the freezing of the FMC. As to why it sets its own FL is beyond me. It freezes whenever you go to set the last CRZ level LSK to change to the proper altitude. I think your FMC starts trying to calculate the descent and it locks up at that point. This should not happen for any reason but this is what is going on. Ohh, this time was on your tutorial flight, and I followed it word for word and it still switched FLs on me from 330 to 370. I am managing with the speed issue now but it is still a bit outrageous and climbs rather fast but it can work to some extent. This switching of FLs should have been notice by someone and so should the freezing up part.Stephen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>This switching of FLs should have been notice by>someone and so should the freezing up part.Well, if the PSS beta had a couple thousand testers in the group like MS uses for its major releases I might agree with you. But given that the entire user base for this add-on is probably smaller than the number of beta testers on a large commercial release, all possible bugs won't appear unless you want PSS to run the beta for a few years years before release.FWIW, I've never seen this FL switching phenomena you're reporting here. And I've never had a freeze-up either. That could be explained by hardware config, user technique, other add-ons in use...the number of possible permutations is mind-boggling.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>>This switching of FLs should have been notice by>>someone and so should the freezing up part.>>Well, if the PSS beta had a couple thousand testers in the>group like MS uses for its major releases I might agree with>you. But given that the entire user base for this add-on is>probably smaller than the number of beta testers on a large>commercial release, all possible bugs won't appear unless you>want PSS to run the beta for a few years years before>release.>>FWIW, I've never seen this FL switching phenomena you're>reporting here. And I've never had a freeze-up either. That>could be explained by hardware config, user technique, other>add-ons in use...the number of possible permutations is>mind-boggling.>>Regards>>Bob Scott>ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300>Santiago de ChileIve got a mind boggling simple possibility; its a bug because I can reproduice it every single time as many others can. And the number of testers BS is just that BS. 5 months and still junk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've personally not had a freeze up either with the T7.The T7 is in a far better position than she was 5 Months ago. Rob has done an excellent job with the Dynamics, the frame rates are better than they where.Can you clarify on "Junk" please Randy, I just want to know what problems you are having and I will try to re-create them myself.I have had a few e-mails for Piltos at my VA asking me to test out situations for them, which I intened to do tomorrow to see if anything needs to be fixed, so if you could clarify the problems you are having, and what you are doing it would help, instead of just saying its Junk, nobody can help if you don't explain whats wrong. (I may have missed it elsewhere in the Forum, if so, a link would be nice)You can post briefly here the problems, or send me an e-mail at the address below in detail, and I will look into it and report back as nessicary.Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Well, I have found your problem area for the freezing of the>FMC. It freezes whenever you go to set the last CRZ level LSK to change to the proper altitude. It happens mainly when editing waypoints close in to the field form what most users are sayingshould have been notice by someone and so should the freezing up part.I am pretty sure it hasEric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good postings Bob. What I found was using V/S up to around FL180 or so and then VNAV from there on up will give good results. If you use VNAV from 400' AGL on up...your on a rocket ride the cattle in the back won't appreciate!Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Ive got a mind boggling simple possibility; its a bug because>I can reproduice it every single time as many others can. And>the number of testers BS is just that BS. 5 months and still>junk.You know Randy, nobody's saying there's not a bug or bugs there. Just that it's not possible with a small beta team and small user base to find them all in a short period of time. I've got several hundred hours on the panel without seeing what you're reporting. That doesn't mean it's not there...just that my set of circumstances didn't bring it out. Clearly, you hadn't chanced across these bugs yourself when you wrote this in the PSS forum in November after the first release:(from http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ng_type=search)>Freakin awsome. Did a short flight from LAS to SFO just to check it >out and all I can say is awewsome. I will definitley, definitley >recommend this aircraft to anyone interested in sophisticated >airliner simulation. Awesome, cant say it enough so glad I pre->ordered.>Great job fellas.>Randy SwoffordI presume you liked it then, as you were so excited you "definitley, definitley" (sic) found three different ways to spell the word "awesome" in one paragraph... But then perhaps you routinely recommend "junk" to all your buds???Anyway, if you can "reproduice" the bug (along with many others), maybe you or one of the nameless faceless "many" could send the "reproduice-able" specifics over to the PSS boys and they can "definitley, definitley" look at it. A mind boggling simple solution, yes??RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de ChileP.S. Spellchackers only work if you use them... :-lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>I've personally not had a freeze up either with the T7.>>The T7 is in a far better position than she was 5 Months ago.>Rob has done an excellent job with the Dynamics, the frame>rates are better than they where.>>Can you clarify on "Junk" please Randy, I just want to know>what problems you are having and I will try to re-create them>myself.>>I have had a few e-mails for Piltos at my VA asking me to test>out situations for them, which I intened to do tomorrow to see>if anything needs to be fixed, so if you could clarify the>problems you are having, and what you are doing it would help,>instead of just saying its Junk, nobody can help if you don't>explain whats wrong. (I may have missed it elsewhere in the>Forum, if so, a link would be nice)>>You can post briefly here the problems, or send me an e-mail>at the address below in detail, and I will look into it and>report back as nessicary.>>CheersHi Iain:I've had the FMC/FS9 freeze while changing speeds and alts in the legs page for crossing restrictions too. Also, for some reason it kicked up all the altitudes on the legs above those that I changed. Typically the FMC will adjust the ones above downward.Yesterday while flying from EDDF to KIAD I entered the crossing and speed restriction and it booted me out of VNAV (http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=224&topic_id=11386&mesg_id=11386&page=). It did come back on however after about an hour. Also, although I had entered 3500 in the MCP alt and at TOD VNAV would not take it down. I had to switch to VS to get her down. If they can iron out the VNAV problem it will be a nice plane indeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$ .02: Besides TO-1 and TO-2 derate, there is also a possibility to add assumed temperature thrust derate. You can reduce your thrust even further this way. Of course, a much easier alternative is to just say that the product does not work the way it is supposed to :-lol A.G.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the engines are in CLB mode, whether derated or not, the only thing controlling airspeed is pitch. As you are flying manually, then it is you who are controlling airspeed, not the autothrottle. Consequently it ignores the speed you have selected in the MCP window.If you use "real world" procedures then you should climb in VNAV or FLCH modes. In both cases airspeed is controlled by pitch attitude. You could disengage the autothrottle and manually reduce thrust to achieve the desired rate of climb, but this goes against the design philosophy and is not very safe.Comparing the performance at light weight with comparable FS addons, the PSS 777 performs perfectly reasonably. Put in a realistic take off weight and you'll find the climb rate becomes more gradual.There seem to be a lot of people who are confused by the default FS aircraft, where the speed selection only controls thrust. On older autopilots this was the case. The autothrottle was intended for approach speed control only. On modern systems the speed selection will usually control pitch, sometimes thrust, but never both together. It's possible to operate the 777 autothrottle like the FS default version but hardly realistic.Kevin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear Bob -I know this may come as quite a shock to you but when someone has a shiny new toy to play with they get excited. After having played with that shiny new toy and found out its nothing as advertised the honeymoon wears off and wears off quickly. I understand there is always a camp with their heads planted firmly up developer "X's" rear end and thats unfortunate. When a piece of software has this many problems, takes five months for a fix and then still freezes if I manipulate the CDU it surely cant be qualified as top notch. I really couldnt care less is anyone agrees with me or not but as far as Im concerend this 777 isnt what its cracked up to be. If your keen on freezing sims and holes in you visual models then this plane is definitley for you. For me there are other developers with much, much, much nicer offerings and better support.Oh and Im very sorry for the delay in getting back in touch with you Bob, I was on vacation.Have a fantastic day!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Delete it and forget it, it is not worth wrecking your nerves.A pity that we lost the money!I will wait for the next 777, maybe the Wilco one is better.Or maybe PMDG will make one?Bye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'll only wreck your nerves if you become obsessed with these issues. I don't know a payware addon which doesn't have problems, even after several patches, and I have addons from all the major suppliers. You have to learn to live with the limitations and modelling errors.I doubt the Wilco 777 will be as good as PSS, it's in the dumbed down Wilcofleet product line (not PIC), like their A380. And why should PMDG invest in developing another version of the 777, when there are plenty of unique aircraft types for them to exploit. It's a lot of time and effort to expend on a market already well served. Only die-hard "PMDG only" fans would be certain to buy.I too have had FMS CDU lock ups post patch 1.1, but I've found selecting another page usually unlocks it, then you can come back to the page you were at and carry on. Not ideal, but hardly worth deleting an otherwise good sim. Also free up as much memory as you can before starting FS9, it's amazing how much is running in a PC you may not be aware of.Sometimes FS9 locks up for no reason, are you suggesting deleting that and suffering the "joys" of X-Plane?I have my own issues with the PSS 777 and its support, but overall it's worthwhile, represents good value for what was paid and I hope PSS will issue one more service update to clear the remaining snags.Kevin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this