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clayton4115

FMC problems

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>still waiting for an answer from Phoenix.Gosh, what can I say Clayton - strike me down for sleeping!Was this any old waypoint or was it part of a SID/STAR? Do you have a plan and maybe which waypoint it was?Simply sniping wont get the problem fixed, especially since none of the team are able to reproduce.

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Clayton. While I totally disagree with your tone, I have actually seen the issue as well. Lets calmly and politely help Norman and the team reproduce it rather than just attacking...Norman. To repro: Fly any route until your next waypoint is your CF point. Then change landing runway (ASV wind shift LOL) go to legs and clear the disco by inserting the NEW CF point as the next Waypoint. Instead of drawing a line from the A/C to the CF point it will draw a line from some random point usually far away from the A/C into the new CF point. I can repro it every time. By this point I am usually flying in a HDG mode on the MCP so I don't worry tremendously about it but I can repro it everytime. If you do not change your CDU entries when your next w/p is CF you will not be able to repro... It is rare that happens to me (changing arrival runway) but it happens...-Paul

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hican someone please explain to me why when you are close to your arrival and you delete a waypoint all the waypoints disappear and the red line for the plane to track also disappears? thereby the plane not knowing which direction to head?

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I notice this as well, but without even changing runways - simply creating a direct-to the existing cf point removes all remaining legs as it should but does not create the line from the a/c symbol, but rather as Paul said from some far off point to the cf point :)If I remember correctly the dashed white line does appear, but is not replaced with the solid magenta when executed.This happens every time, everywhere I've tried it (so sorry I cannot recall specific runways now). regards,Markhttp://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/mar.../sup_banner.jpgXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1024mb/X700pro256

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This is the typical attitude we are still seeing from PSS, complete and utter rudeness, the patch is still of a very bad quality and I have many times sent an email to a member of the PSS team which I wont mention who it is, and he has not replied once towards my emails, I for one will not purchase a PSS product again.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gif http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ritz...tishAirways.jpg http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e62/ritzer82/untitled.jpg

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I NEED MORE IONFORMATION.If the WP is part of an approach, it might delete the rest of t he procedure. If it is a route waypoint in front of the aircraft, it is an error.If you can, show me the legs page with the waypoints before and after the incident.---leo---

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I have not found this problem. I do want to say to Clayton especially. Give up! You are obviously a child or someone with no attention span or no life. You find some minor issue and then slam the developer for not anwering you in one hour. Maybe the hour spent reading the manual or learning to fly an FS aircraft in the proper manner would be better spent.Norman or anyone else at PSS, please give him his money back and block his posts. They are simply obnoxious.

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yes give my money back, good riddens to bad RUBBISH!!!i will fly my PMDG 737 which is over 2 years old and still given my pleasure flying!!!

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Leo,I don't want to get into the rest of this but I do want to get to the bottom of the original issue and it looks like you and Mark do too...I am testing something else right now on KSEA-KEWR so i can't post a screenie...For me, it is a New Waypoint inserted in front of the A/C. This is definitely an error but it could be user or procedural error (although I doubt it.) If for example you are approaching Seattle from the South towards 34L on a 340 heading and then ATC vectors you to 16R instead and you go to DEP/ARR and hit RSK to remove 34L from ARR and then hit RSK for 16R and EXEC. Now you go to Legs and CF34L has been replaced with a Disco and then CF16R. So you insert CF16R into the Disco and you will get a line drawn from the North to South on a 160 HDG to CF16R instead of from your AC to CF16R which would continue to be a 340 HDG. There is no connection between the A/C and the new LNAV line drawn. The LNAV line is from some random point to the new CF point. Does that make sense?-PaulLiquid CooledAMD 4000 San Diego2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2Dual 7800 GTX 24 inch widescreen dual 19 inch LCDRaid-0psolksig.jpg

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What is supposed to happen is:Whenever you place a waypoint into the first position on the legs page the FMC makes a conditional track from present position to the new waypoint, a box appears at the bottom right of the FMC page and allows you to select an intercept to the waypoint from any other track besides PP to WP. On my PSS simulation this isn't happening. It retains the old track and LNAV tries to make an intercept heading to attain the old track. This is an error, improper application.NOW, if you extend a runway, that is place a runway waypoint into the #1 pos on legs, it will give you the option to extend the runway track -or- give you PP to WP, which you really wouldn't want to do if you plan to land there -- unless of course you are already on centerline to the runway. Again, my install of the PSS 777 does not do this. To overcome the errors, I just use heading select until close enough to engage approach mode and then engage APP for the final approach. I also use either VS or FLCH to make altitude adjustments prior to GS intercept as I haven't been able to get VNAV to work for those transitions. Again, it might be my install, but like others, I have the PMDG and it works exactly as the RW implementation.I will never trash talk or declaim a product. The programmers work too hard for the model. I just wish the folks at PSS the very best as they perfect their product.---leo---

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For me there is route that reproduces it consistently. I will dig it out sometime. If you load a route and then select the approach runway without a STAR (so that only the final CF fix is loaded) the altitude predictions preceding the CF are not recaclulated to match. It seems to be that the waypoints with predicitions that are below CF are deleted (I think when it is the TO waypoint) and the aircraft goes wandering off on its own).

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Unfortunately, the radar clutter and distortion when zoomed in prohibit me from seeing what was going on.Sorry.Just an operational note -- the radar scan should be raised until only a tiny bit of ground clutter shows, unless there really were that many rain showers present for your arrival. ---leo---:)

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Please ignore speeds. etc. Just look at the FMC and HSI.This is arrival at KIAD from Jasen arrival to RW 1R.picture 1 on arrivalpicture 2 downwind -- note the little prompt at lower r on FMC to choose intercept trackpicture 3 downwind with approach path active.picture 4 on final.

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hmmm... did you mean to show the PMDG 737?-PLiquid CooledAMD 4000 San Diego2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2Dual 7800 GTX 24 inch widescreen dual 19 inch LCDRaid-0psolksig.jpg

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yes, because it isn't implemented in t he PSS. I wanted to show how it is supposed to work. ---leo---

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LOL, Can you show the PSS Bird now with her line from nowhere...Thanks Leo,-PaulLiquid CooledAMD 4000 San Diego2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2Dual 7800 GTX 24 inch widescreen dual 19 inch LCDRaid-0psolksig.jpg

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LeoI have recently been looking in detail at the way the PSS 777 handles waypoints and found your notes above very interesting. I was searching for anything which might cause the early turns and disappearing waypoints during approaches. Of note, when an early turn occurs, that waypoint disappears and the FMC does not try to recover the original planned track between waypoints - instead the FMC points the aircraft directly at the next waypoint and sets this up as a new track to this waypoint.This is the reverse of, for example, the Airbus programming - here the waypoints remain during the turn and the aircraft initially sets heading to recover to the original planned track between waypoints. Only then does it turn towards the next waypoint.From your post it appears that the rw 777 FMC operates as per the PSS version BUT allows the pilot to select an intercept heading so that the aircraft can recover the original planned track between the waypoints - which of course is the track that ATC expects you to fly and on which VNAV bases its descent planning. Also note on your 737 examples that the magenta track on the ND remains showing behind the aircraft - as you know on the PSS 777 the magenta track always stops at the aircraft symbol.I do not have PMDG - happy with PSS so far - and I have never used FMC in my rw flying - the F4 is much more agricultural! So very grateful if you could comment on my understanding of how the rw 777 handles waypoint turns.Many ThanksJohn R

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The aircraft isn't like PAC MAN. It doesn't gobble up waypoints. After crossing a waypoint, it is eliminated from the route.The FMC computes a turn over a waypoint and generates a track that will keep you within the confines of an airway. At any point along the track, you can line select to go direct to any waypoint and have the option to go PP Direct, HS to intercept a selected track or even track FROM a waypoint. If you are on an ATC vector, they cleared to intercept your route, you are able to select a heading to intercept the existing track, create a track direct to a waypoint or even create a point along the track to fly direct to and then continue on course.PSS does a pretty good job of modeling the FMC, just didn't include all its features as they exist on the 777.I recently flew a PSS 777 flight from KORD to KIAD. I used VNAV from 400' on departue and used HS until given on course by ATC. It all worked as expected. I even updated and changed some waypoints and the speed and altitude at some waypoints and it ALL WORKED. On some previous flights, it didn't work, so I must have some buggies in my system.I had no ATC on arrival at KIAD, so did my own headings and altitudes for the transition to ILS approach and all was well until just inside the OM with all systems normal and the goofy thing decided to go FULL POWER. I quickly turned off the AT, got back on GS and continued for an autoland. Never did figure out what caused that power surge. The AP never disconnected (it would have in RW) and I managed to keep it on the runway after landing. :-)Happy flying. Keep it safe and interesting.---leo---

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