777-300Er unstable on autoland

[FOD 23]

GuyJust watch your ILS indications on touchdown. Just before td APP goes out and LOC illuminates, then at td, LOC goes out. The ap is still engaged but there is no mode light on.John R

[guy 24]

John,I have seen that now: the Loc light goes effectively out after touchdown, as you said. So probably you are right, the automatic rollout is not functionning at all.That would also explain why the Pss guys have become silent on this.Guy

[Guest NormanB]

>That would also explain why the Pss guys have become silent on>this.Guy,Silence means nothing. I notice the exact same thread over at JF's forum which Martin has just replied to.

[guy 24]

Norman,I still do not know your opinion about this rollout thing.Guy

[Guest NormanB]

Guy,As a support forum, we support our customers. As we both know, your custom is actually with Just Flight since they are the guys who took your money.My personal opinion which you seek however I give freely. Autolands are not my thing. Despite being an Airbus guy I would much rather fly with hands on from 10k to the surface. For me, FS is all about the actual flight planning and the instrument work involved in flying a departure or an approach by hand.

[guy 24]

Norman,I am almost sure Pss got at least a part of my money for the 777.I am a long-time Pss customer since the Fs2000 days. Had the old 777/747 and still have and fly with pleasure the A320/A330/A340 and also the Concorde on FS2004.All great planes and the new 777 for Fs2004 is probably the best of them all.I like both handflying and automatic flying.And I suppose that Pss did all this programming not just for fun , but so that we can use it. For pure handflying I can use the default 777.I ask some questions about things I see and would be interested in an answer.With all respect, if you don't know the answer, couldn't you ask or transmit to someone else in the team ?Because, where can I ask them, if not here, on this forum?RegardsGuy

[Guest theundertaker1998]

GUY,If you got youre 777 from Just Flight ..Then you really should ask them in their own support form..And you saying the 777 goes out of controll when you have it in autoland? Is youre C/G (Center Of Gravity) Correct..Are you disconneceting the A/P when you touch down.?James

[FOD 23]

JamesHave a look at the JF forum and you will see that he has two problems:1. AP oscillating when tracking the ILS LOC in the ER - more pronounced as xwind increases. This has been reported before with the ER - I have the LR and have never had a problem so I guess it must be something in the FDE as I assume that both share the same panel including AP?2. He assumed that the PSS 777 had auto rollout.The first problem might also be something to do with his kit - the only way that I could reproduce the AP problem in the LR was by reducing FPS to very low single figures.As to the second, all he needed was a one word answer - whether rollout was modelled or not. Unfortunately neither Just Flight nor PSS have been able to provide a definitive answer!John Rooum

[Guest theundertaker1998]

Hey John,i wasnt trying to be a smart*** i was just saying if he had tried any of the things. Like disconnect A/P on touchdown...And as far as JF. That is the reason i dont buy from second hand companys..If PSS makes the model and all that i will buy it from PSS..Not that i am saying anything is wrong with JF. And as far as me i dont have a problem and i only fly the 200lrJames

[FOD 23]

JamesHey, I was not getting at you. Also I agree your point about buying from companies such as JF - although their support is now 100% better than it was a couple of years ago.My point was that, in these support forums, I think those such as Guy could at least expect to be given definitive answers on what is modelled and what is not. It saves an awful lot of hassle and wasted time.RegardsJohn

[guy 24]

Well said, John!If you had a look at the JF forum, you have probably seen that Martin, the moderator, reproduced the 2 issues and said that the rollout was not functionning.They modelled the rollout ,because it appears in the PFD, but it is not functionning really because the LOC light goes out on touchdown as you remarked (i had not seen that).But, in my eyes, those are only small issues of an otherwise very good plane. I made some research on the forum on those things and have seen that you intervened regularly, and if I understood well, you were a F4 Phantom pilot. In one thread you say that it did not have an FMC.Would be interested to know then what it did use for navigation, Inertial or what?regards Guy

[FOD 23]

Guy1. Mark 1 Eyeball2. First generation inertial3. RadarIn that order of priority!But lets get back to the 777 and its ap. When you are having problems with ap LOC tracking, at what range are you capturing the LOC and are you using a smooth apprach to the LOC - say between 30 and 45 degrees? Also, what sort of fps are you seeing?John

[guy 24]

John,Thanks for the information concerning the F4.I generally intercept the LOC at the generated CF point(CF35R for example) and always at a smooth angle. To eliminate all interferences I had made a test setting traffic so 0 and nice weather (with sidewind 80

[FOD 23]

Guy,No problems with fps - that's what I am getting on my aging system.In my experience, the PSS 777 CF point is far too close for a sensible ILS approach - even the PSS Airbus series uses a CF point at 12 nm and an A319 should be more manoeuverable than a 777.I always aim to be "localiser established" with at least 20 flap and gear down at the correct speed and at 2000 or 2500 ft by 10 - 12 nm to touchdown. I then select approach flap just as we intercept the glidepath and leave the rest to the AP! It certainly works perfectly on the LR.BTW its crosswind component that's important - 8 kts at 90 degrees to the runway has the same effect as 16 kts at 30 degrees off.Try an auto-ils setting the aircraft up really early - say established in the localiser at 15+ m with gear and flaps down at the correct approach speed by 12 nm. The aircraft should track the loc smoothly with sufficient drift - up to 10 degrees depending on xwind - to maintain the centreline. On touchdown, AP off and use rudder and aileron to maintain the centreline.Good Luck!John

[guy 24]

John,Flew some circuits following your advice: slowing down earlier and intercepting localizer at 10-11 nm.With a sidewind of 60