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Ralgh

Approach Procedures not in FMC. Can I get them somehow?

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I have updated my PSS planes with the same AIRACs and Terminal procedures as my Level D and PMDG planes. On those planes I can select specific approaches in the FMC and see their waypoints on my nav display. In my PSS planes (777, all the Airbuses)all I see is, for example at LAX 24R, CF24R and RW24R. The 777 FMC is very similar to the 737, 747 and 767 I also have. In the others I can select specific approaches where in the 777 all I can select is the runway.Is there a way to make it so it will have specific approaches? Did I miss something along the way? This question was asked last November by someone else but nobody responded at all. Maybe there is more info on this now or some one who can show me the light?

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That is where I have been getting my Terminal Procedures for all my planes. I just doubble click on the downloaded icon and let the installer do its work. I just updaed to that latest data. The thing is when I press the DEP/ARR button and select ARR on the CDU all I see on the right hand side are runways. There are no approaches to select from. I am using LAX as an example. I tried it again and selected the PDZ4 arrival to 25L. I have all the arrival fixes but just CF25L and RW25L for the runway. There should be GAATE, HUNDA, LIMMA and then the runway. On my 767 I have ILS06L, ILS06R etc. Same goes for my PMDG planes. Is there something different I need to do with my PSS planes?

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While on the subject of FMS AIRAC cycles and terminal procedures, I'd like to ask PSS what the plan is for the future, as The US DOD is eliminating open access to it (latest and last free maps now out), and NAVDATA.AT is shifting its wonderful free service to the Navigraph paid service. Will new aircraft be supplied with old cycles or fresh data? Is PSS ensuring at least one source of such data for continued aircraft support?>I have updated my PSS planes with the same AIRACs and>Terminal procedures as my Level D and PMDG planes. On those>planes I can select specific approaches in the FMC and see>their waypoints on my nav display. In my PSS planes (777, all>the Airbuses)all I see is, for example at LAX 24R, CF24R and>RW24R. The 777 FMC is very similar to the 737, 747 and 767 I>also have. In the others I can select specific approaches>where in the 777 all I can select is the runway.>>Is there a way to make it so it will have specific approaches?>Did I miss something along the way? This question was asked>last November by someone else but nobody responded at all.>Maybe there is more info on this now or some one who can show>me the light?

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Opher,This is a question that not only PSS needs to address. All add on developers are in the same boat. At this time I cant give a firm answer either way except to say we are looking at all available options.

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Tom, I cannot answer for the rest of your questions, but i can input on the last issue:Yes on the PLN mode for some reason there is an offset of the dotted line for the runway, but in MAP mode when you actually come in, the CF waypoint WILL be lined up with the runway properly. This freaked me out a bit too on my first flight when i was atempting to confirm the plan. I finally decided to just get up there and fly it and sure enough, when I made the actual approach the CF waypoint was indeed on the dotted line :-)I usually personally eliminate the CF waypoint and make sure all ILS actual approach waypoints are in the FMS as per charts, including altitude restrictions, etc., and I meet all such restrictions by using FLCH and following ATC accordingly from TOD (you will almost never see any airline flying a VNAV approach unless special permission is atained from the ATC controller -- at least here in the US anyway).Also, for some reason, eliminating the CF waypoint also seems to kill off the autotune for my FMS getting the ILS signal into PARK, so if you do use this method, be sure you have those charts and frequencies handy (real world pilots do anyway, so we may as wel) :-)Hope this helps.

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Well that is kind of my problem. The thing is when I select an arrival the RWXX seems to not be at the runway. It is in a different spot for each different arrival I select. I don't know if this is a 777 problem or SID/STAR file problem but all my other planes work fine. The others are on 0605 data and the 777 is on 0608 AIRAC and 0609 Treminal Procedures. Maybe the next update will fix it. It occured to me it probably isn't a problem anyway. I use FS Build to do my flight plans and it just puts in the fixes not the actual procedure for the arrival. That should get the job done however I would like to get the 777 to work right in the long run.For the approachs I will just build them like you say. I am an airline pilot so I have a full set of charts to get the waypoints from. Hopefully in the future they will get it so the actual approaches are in the FMS. I am a little confused though because it sounds like some people have the approaches in their FMCs. Or maybe we are just miscommunicating.edit: Forget the first paragraph. I have a bigger problem than I though. I can't find another thread on this so I am going to start a new one.

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You will see advanced transport aircraft fly the descent on VNAV and LNAV as common practice. ATC instructions and restrictions are input into the CDU which modifies the descent plan. When properly issued, ATC instructions are issued early to enable smooth transitions, and substantially deviate from the filed arrival only when conditions require so. Other times, pilots train in manual flight, and will disconnect a function or the whole autoflight system, usually at or below 10,000 feet, and fly it by hand.>you will almost never see any airline flying a VNAV>approach unless special permission is atained from the ATC>controller -- at least here in the US anyway.

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Opher, Exactly -- but that's why I was saying -- special permission has to be attained. That ATC controller has to SPECIFICALY clear you to perform the VNA aproach for your descent -- however indirectly it is (such as "cleared QUAIL3 approach, descend at your own descretion to 9,000). That "descend at your own descretion" I believe is when you can use VNAV. I guess my wording was off -- more or less it's hard to act that way on an IFR flight in the sim because ATC doesn't have that ability in FS -- although I hear they **may** have that in FS X . . . Most of the guys I talk to are from United and Frontier here in Denver, and they usually say that Denver is pretty set in control (we have the most organized approaches in the Nation - hence our record low delay times -- except for our famous blizzards LOL), so here in Denver they ARE lucky to have a lot of VNAV clearances, although I have heard from them that in places such as Atlanta on the MACEY approach it's almost always controlled descent.Am I wrong in this? Just curious as I am always trying to learn.I do practice that other part though -- my AP will NEVER be on below 10,000 in the sim, no matter what the real airlines do. Heck -- I want to at least fly the airplane myself PART of the time LOL.Tom,Yes it is localized to only PSS aircraft, and even at that it appears to be only the Boeings, not their Airbuses. I only have the issue with the 777 and 757. Once I got used to the fact that at least the waypoints were correct and to not rely on that dotted line in PLN mode, I started having very nice and smooth flights without much worry.<> because my typing skills suck

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Chris, I agree with you. Good ATC can and should properly space arrivals no later than initial descent. This means that there are no real restrictions, possibly gradual descent clearance issue such that you just lower the MCP altitude ahead of time without interrputing the continuous descent.Being a very long time real world pilot (first Solo in 1963), I do not think that FS flight control system I use is good enough for proper flight. I focus on IFR and modern transport autoflight, avoiding manual ""flight"" where possible, unlike in real life.Lastly, FS9 ATC might be useful for beginners, without a real sense of challenge or human interaction. Might be good if you are training to become a robot. Fly VATSIM!! Different world altoghether.>Opher, >>Exactly -- but that's why I was saying -- special permission>has to be attained. That ATC controller has to SPECIFICALY>clear you to perform the VNA aproach for your descent -->however indirectly it is (such as "cleared QUAIL3 approach,>descend at your own descretion to 9,000). That "descend at>your own descretion" I believe is when you can use VNAV. I>guess my wording was off -- more or less it's hard to act that>way on an IFR flight in the sim because ATC doesn't have that>ability in FS -- although I hear they **may** have that in FS>X . . . >>Most of the guys I talk to are from United and Frontier here>in Denver, and they usually say that Denver is pretty set in>control (we have the most organized approaches in the Nation ->hence our record low delay times -- except for our famous>blizzards LOL), so here in Denver they ARE lucky to have a lot>of VNAV clearances, although I have heard from them that in>places such as Atlanta on the MACEY approach it's almost>always controlled descent.>>Am I wrong in this? Just curious as I am always trying to>learn.>>I do practice that other part though -- my AP will NEVER be on>below 10,000 in the sim, no matter what the real airlines do. >Heck -- I want to at least fly the airplane myself PART of the>time LOL.

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I have used PSS for a good number of years and Plane Path or Nav Data do not include different runway approaches like PMGD AND LevelD. Plane Path has the latest nav data.percy.

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Is it because PSS doesn't support that or do they just not make the data the same way? It seems it would be good for PSS in the long run to get that implimented with their new aircraft. Maybe a future update perhaps.

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VATSIM rocks! :-)Well, I was not even born in 1963, but I can say that I do know exactly how you feel on the flight dynamics of the sim. To me even the level D motion sims can't compare to the real thing (though they are great for practicing operations and flows). Maybe someday I'll get to touch the heavy iron, but as it looks now it looks like once i am out of flight school here at PCC I'll be aiming to use my EMT experience and double that onto an air ambulance job . . .

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PMDG SID STAR data base has a section called approaches ( in the star data base)that list the different approaches for each runway I do not see this in PSS nav data base. PSS data is configured different than PMDG data. You can look at the data base it is found in the module folder PSS nav data, or in the PMDG folder sidstar data, opens with excel. percy.

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The pss planes do not have the approaches in their Fmc. They have only the Sids and Stars.Here is what I do:I have added the default Fs9-Gps in the panel and I look up the approach in the Gps and add the waypoints then in the FMC.Regards.Guy

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Also, go to (and this is for US airports only) airnav.com and look up your airport. It's all free :-) And all the latest charts are accessable there, including approaches. To ssimulate full flight planning, I always print and have my charts handy during the flight.For other countries, I do not have any links to give, but I have heard VATSIM has an array of such chart resources.I can take the chart and put in all the waypoints and restrictions in literally a moment's time, and since Airnav has the latest charts for official use by the users of the site, I know I am flying the official approach as it is published the day I make the flight :-)For those that do not have that much printer ink, it still takes only a few moments to bring up the chart in PDF and jot down the waypoints on paper :-)Hope this helps. - to delete half the smilieys in this post. LOL. They looked a bit distracting.

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Do you also get altitude, speed and fly-over restrictions that way?>The pss planes do not have the approaches in their Fmc. They>have only the Sids and Stars.>>Here is what I do:>>I have added the default Fs9-Gps in the panel and I look up>the approach in the Gps and add the waypoints then in the>FMC.>>Regards.>>Guy

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No, I do not have altitude and speed restrictions by using the Gps, but it is better then nothing at all!Guy

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