End of Route

[kevinh 409]

>Most popular commercial add-ons have this message appear.That doesn't necessarily make it right.In the PMDG 744 I believe END OF ROUTE comes up as a status message in white on the FMC but with no EICAS message. I'm not sure this is right either but at least it's not distracting. I'm only going by what I have read in the FCOM, but I concede there may be customer options which affect the logic too.Kevin

[Guest Phoenix5]

>>Most popular commercial add-ons have this message appear.>>That doesn't necessarily make it right.Kevin,I realise this, I was just making the comment that it is not a "issue" isolated to the PSS aircraft.

[Brian Doney 127]

"The point is that END OF ROUTE is a warning that you have passed the last waypoint and the AFCS has consequently switched from LNAV to HDG mode."As I understand it, END OF ROUTE is just a notification that you've reached the end of the active route, no more, no less. If in LNAV, the autopilot reverts to HDG HLD because there is no active leg to fly, same as with any discontinuity. I'm also kinda confused by this statement:"If LNAV is not active this won't happen, hence no need for a message."The FMS will indeed still sequence waypoints even if not under LNAV guidance, so I'm not sure what exactly you're saying here. I'm also pretty sure that the message is only inhibited on the ground. With all of this, I'm happy to be proven wrong, though. :)"On the turn to the left issue, maybe the AFCS is going to HDG SEL mode instead of HDG HOLD? The heading bug should always be kept aligned manually anyway, but if you forget, the sim would follow whatever heading you last had selected."Could be, I dunno, but if the AFDS is coming out of APP into HDG SEL OR HDG HLD because of an END OF ROUTE scratchpad...well...that's just not right, as I'm sure you already are well aware :-lol

[FOD 23]

Hi All,I have been watching this thread over the last few days; and as I have just flown some 15 auto-ILS to autoland in the 777 {looking at a separate problem on STAR tracking}, you may be interested in how the 777 reacts on my installation:1. At around the 100 ft call, the CDU shows the end-or-route message. I see no change on the Nav radios and the AP appears to remain in APP mode tracking LOC and GP.2. At around 80 ft, the FMC enters the landing phase. The glidepath is disconnected but the AP remains tracking the LOC as the aircraft starts the landing.{APP off, LOC on}3 At around 30 ft, throttles retard to idle and the flare starts.4.At touchdown, LOC is disconnected {light out}, the AP light remains illuminated, but with no mode lights, and yaw control is disconnected from the AP to allow rudder control for the manual roll-out. {Auto-rollout is not modelled} Manual Aileron and elevator control is inhibited until the AP is manually disconnected.I emphasise that this in on my systems. With the original 777 release, I occasionally saw the turn problems just before touchdown but I have never been able to reproduce them since the first update.I'll try a few sorties in the 757 next although, again, I have never had this problem with that aircraft.John Rooum

[kevinh 409]

>"The point is that END OF ROUTE is a warning that you have>passed the last waypoint and the AFCS has consequently>switched from LNAV to HDG mode.">>As I understand it, END OF ROUTE is just a notification that>you've reached the end of the active route, no more, no less.>If in LNAV, the autopilot reverts to HDG HLD because there is>no active leg to fly, same as with any discontinuity. >>I'm also kinda confused by this statement:>>"If LNAV is not active this won't happen, hence no need for>a message.">>The FMS will indeed still sequence waypoints even if not under>LNAV guidance, so I'm not sure what exactly you're saying>here. I'm also pretty sure that the message is only inhibited>on the ground. With all of this, I'm happy to be proven wrong,>though. :)>>"On the turn to the left issue, maybe the AFCS is going to>HDG SEL mode instead of HDG HOLD? The heading bug should>always be kept aligned manually anyway, but if you forget, the>sim would follow whatever heading you last had selected.">>Could be, I dunno, but if the AFDS is coming out of APP into>HDG SEL OR HDG HLD because of an END OF ROUTE>scratchpad...well...that's just not right, as I'm sure you>already are well aware :-lol I'm only repeating what it says in the aircraft manual, that LNAV must be active for the alert to be given. OK it's for a 747-400 (I don't have access to a 757 one at present), but the logic won't be much different for the 777, and likely very similar for the 757 too.Even though the FMC is always sequencing waypoints, if LNAV is not active it is not in control. The alert is there to warn that LNAV has been disengaged because the last waypoint has been passed. If LNAV has already been disengaged by selecting HDG or engaging LOC then an alert is superfluous.As to your last comment, absolutely agree of course.Kevin

[Brian Doney 127]

Well, I guess we'll leave it at that then.I do find it curious that a standard disco will generate a message, but that an end of route shouldn't, though I have nothing concrete to back that up with.At any rate, this is really tangential to the more serious problem with the AFDS dropping out of APP mode. More accurately, what seems to be happening s the FMS is autotuning the closest VOR(s) at end of route. Since this a/c incorrectly uses NAV1 for ILS purposes...well, you get the picture.