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Guest earlybird59

PSS B777 FMC CDU dep/arr page

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Hi PSS,I've been flying the B777 for a while now. On the FMC DEP/ARR page you will find the SID and STARS on the left side and the rwy approaches should be on the right side. So far I have noticed you'll only find the rwy number on the right side and not an approach(ILS, VOR). This is quite strange since PSS describes this in the 777 FMC manual on page 20.As a consequence of this, after the last fix of a STAR, the FMC will come up with fixes of itself leading dct. to the selected rwy instead of calculating a nice ILS of VOR final approach.Is this meant to be, because your manual states something else or is there or will there be a fix for this issue ? I know i can manually do this by checking my app. plates, but that is not how it was meant to be i suppose.Another peculiar thing about the FMC: can't enter the reserve amount of fuel with the keyboard.Otherwise excellent AC.Rgdrs,Earl Best

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Earl,I'm having the same problems with my DEP/ARR page. Do the Instrument approaches exist for this aircraft? Any help would be much appreciated.ThanksAAL152Ivan KnudsenSr. CaptainAmerican Virtual Airlines

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I would also like to get the answer.Strange that there is no approaches in the DEP/ARR page...

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Was just about to ask that...I see I'm not the only one facing this.And what's up with that CF(Rwy #) thingy instead of the ILS approach fixes.

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There is nothing "up" with the CF "thingy". The auto inserted CF point was designed to provide a intercept point for runways without procedures.Removing the auto inserted CF will "fix" the issues that you are describing, in that it will allow the proper procedure without doubling back on itself at the final intercept point.

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Very great,but it doesn't tell us why the approaches don't appear on the right side of the DEp/ARR pages as it should.Did PSS deliberately not modelelise this feature?If so, it is a real pain because approaches are very important procedures of the FMC navigation.Without them, the end of the arrival procedure is missing, which is quite annoying, because you need to enter all the last waypoints manually in the CDU (provided that you have the right approach chart, which is not obvious either!).Otherwise, we can of course fly directly to the CFXX point, but it is not realistic at all. We should be able to choose beetween ILS, NDB ILS, VOR DME, etc...Geoff495

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Am I missing the question?I am not getting any problems - currently flying KDFW-EGKK and all my approaches appear as expectedSee enclosure

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Those are not instrument approaches, they are just runways. I can't understand why there are only like four people that understand what I'm talking about. This is not the only forum I've posted this on and nobody understands what an instrument approach is. Can someone from PSS please help with this question, I would really appreciate it. By the way I've attached a pic of the PMDG CDU with the instrument approaches on the right hand side, like they're supposed to be.

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PSS and PMDG navdata files are different in that respect. Compare the two - don't think you'll find any ILS approaches in the PSS file. The PSS STARS end at the last fix in each STAR, no transitions, no ILS's.Jim Harnes

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As Jim has said the PSS format is different to the PMDG format. The transistions are built into the procedures, and if a runway selected has a ILS frequency associated with it, this is also automatically picked up and loaded to the NAV radio.In most cases deleting the extra "auto-inserted" CF fix will solve the issue. In a few cases it may be necessary to add a way point or two, but this is a very easy procedure and it is always recommended for pilots to have their charts with them before they depart, regardless of what aircraft they fly. Procedures can and do change frequently.

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So basically what you're saying is that there are no instrument approaches for the PSS FMC and we must manually insert the approaches. Thanks for answering the question finally. Thats all I wanted to know, now at least I can stop searching and wondering if there is something wrong with my FMC.

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Entering the final waypoints manually can be a option, but unfortunately it doesn't replace the lack of approach every time.Because, some of the terminal approach fixes cannot be entered manually. For instance, when you have an ARC DME, or fixes that are not actually waypoints (something like 15LYS, etc...). It is even more true for a missed approach (commonly you will find (2000), etc...).There is no way that we can find those points in the normal database, we do need to have it in the approaches of the FMC.Without this procedures, a part of the RNAV procedure is missing, and in real life I think it won't be even legual to meet the RNAV requirements.

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It is actually very easy to add a arc to the FMC route. Use place/bearing/distance. Assuming that you wanted to perform an arc approach into YSSY for some reason you could enter SY335/12 to start the arc, then SY315/12, SY295/12 etc all the way around to the point you want to get off the arc.

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Steven,It's been a while since I loaded up the 777, but maybe I can help explain what "The Jerk" <-username of poster; is asking.I think he's asking whether or not through you all, or via another source 'file', if he can get the IAP's (Instrument Approach Procedures) to show up in the PSS FMC. I'm not sure if he's using the/your default navdata PSS files or another source such as Navigraph. (I'll purchase and d/l the latest Navigraph cycle and see if they're there as well). I dont' remember them being there with the default PSS install (or at least they dissapeared somewhow-or maybe they were just partial to begin with)In other words, if he has a navdata file that contains the IAP's (usually a part of the TP's) does your FMC 'model' that feature. I thought you did, it's probably something funky going on with the way the navdata-base file is structured and installed maybe on the users machine.Well, this turned into a long post...lol. So much for making it easy. :-)

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OK, I think I can understand now what is happening.I looked at some procedure files for the PSS navdata from a few years ago, and it seems that over time the content has changed. Most of the earlier information was written with the ILS/NDB/VOR/ARC written into the approach procedure. So you would select (fictional rwys here) rwy 12, then the procedure and approach/transition.I was going to try and highlight the changes with the current information and information from a procedure that I wrote, but the latest AIRAC does not have YWLM included, so I have posted my procedure in hope that you can see that the missing information used to be included in the procedure.:{YWLM/NDB /RW12 /RTARC} <-------- square brackets1, RTARC,010, 11dme,-32.818833, 151.609167, ,IF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,000,+,03100,00000,110001, RTARC,020, ARC02,-32.739000, 151.609167, ,TF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,000,+,02000,00000,000001, RTARC,030, 10DME,-32.674000, 151.687000, ,IF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,000,+,02000,00000,000001, RTARC,040, 05DME,-32.726833, 151.748500, ,TF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,000, ,00000,00000,000001, RTARC,050, NDB,-32.803333, 151.828833, ,TF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,000, ,00000,00000,00000{YWLM/ILS /RW12 /LTARC}1, LTARC,010, 11DME,-32.626000, 151.971833, ,IF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,210,+,03100,00000,110002, LTARC,010, 11DME,-32.626000, 151.971833, ,IF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,210,+,03100,00000,110002, LTARC,020, WPT02,-32.587167, 151.833500, ,TF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,210,+,03100,00000,000002, LTARC,030, WPT03,-32.616667, 151.772667, ,TF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,190,+,02000,00000,000002, LTARC,040, 10DME,-32.674000, 151.687000, ,IF, ,000,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,190,+,02000,00000,000002, LTARC,020, 08DME,-32.687000, 151.691000, ,IF, ,118,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,000, ,00000,00000,000002, LTARC,030, WLM,-32.803000, 151.844667, ,FF, ,118,000.000,000.0,000.0,0.000000,000.0,000, ,00000,00000,00000

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I would hope that some day PSS would include multi approaches (ILS,RNAV, NDB AND VOR)FOR the same RW like PMDG and Level D have. For me the PSS 777 is the best flying plane out there with It's only failing being in the nav data approaches.percy.

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I would have to agree with that statement. Love the plane, hate the navdata.

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I am hoping that when we do decide to make another aircraft with a FMC, that we will be able to redesign the FMC and NAV data systems from scratch, make the files more user friendly.

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That woulld be great, were I run into problems is when the approach is changed or one I do not have approach plates to and have to relie on what is in the FMC. The only way to fly the new RNAV approaches is to follow the route stored in the FMC.Thanks for the info, looking forward to your next Aircraft.percy

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Hi was just checking back on this topic and.... finally some response.But still none answers my first post. Why does PSS describe the appropriate procedures in the FMC manual and is stating something else now ???The only conclusion left seems to be that this was either overseen or not modeled correctly, which is not a great mistake after all for an otherwise excellent AC, as long as it gets corrected !!Rgrds,Earl.

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