Flight Analysis Screen Burp PROOF Please.

[Sonar5 3]

Flight Analysis Screen Burp PROOF Please.Hi all,I am still looking for a someone to post a reproduceable flight where this alleged anomaly occurs where no plane change or something else happens.I have yet to be able to reproduce an error over a two hour flight where my flight analysis screen gets corrupted with an < icon, unless I do something like a plane change.I see some are trying for a seperate program for this, but I would also like to nail this down, as I don't recall this being a problem the last two years, and now all of a sudden it is a problem.If it is due to an add-on, we shouldn't make exceptions, that person should simply not use that particular add-on.So let's figure it out.I think the folks having the problems need to start with a clean install and prove this out. I suspect it is a problem with something they have installed on their system as an add-on or something.There are two few people having problems, and too many not having any, IMHO.I don't see where installing another program to chew up my resources is the answer to this, when a clean install may just fix what they are experiencing, IMHO.So if you have a flight to post where this regularly occurs, post it, and let's verify it. I am personally against accepting any screenshots where there is a disrupt icon < in the Flight Analysis screen. But hey, I am just one person trying to get a fair race for all.I also don't agree with a new beta software being used so close to race time, and expecting us to feel this out. Maybe for the 2006 race, but I disagree that it should be used for this one.Thanks,JoeJOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

[Guest]

I too have never (in 5 years of simming with MSFS and several thousand flights) had any abnormality with the FA screen, no matter the duration of the flight.People just need to remember to not mess with ANY FS setting during the flight.No "correcting" timezones (this includes not running automated "correction" programs), no changing scenery settings, no changing the aircraft (and that includes adding fuel halfway through the flight because you miscalculated your load).The new tool is nice but I agree that it's not something for this year, especially this late in the process.For next year it might be nice, especially if the report could be automatically filed to a central database using it.

[Guest JohnMueller]

I have identical, very clean, FS-Installations at home and on a office computer. On my office computer I have the "Burp" consistantly, sometime several times throughout a 2 hour flight. At home, I have yet to see the beast. My office-pc is a 2.8Ghz P4 / 1GB RAM, etc., not the newest, not the oldest thing. My Home PC is a AMD 64,3400'er running on a set of RAID-SATA-Disks, nicer :).If you want, I can easily make a small video of the FS, show you when it happens (scenery starts loading, weather starts loading, whatever...). I know that if I have this happen during the race, and I'm sure I did the flight correctly, I will do everything I can to make sure the flight is counted as valid. If this happens to someone who is less hyped-up about the race, I'm sure he'll just drop the whole thing if his 2-hour stunts aren't counted as the work he put into them - that would be a real shame!Also, these Flight-Analysis screens can be faked sooo easily it's almost embarasing that they are used to validate a flight. Just take the plane up, put it into 128x rate, fly to the destination, pull back the rate and land: viola - instant validation, 5 minutes of work, full red line, on time to post with your baton-drop. Come on guys - and that's without pulling up Photoshop to track a single pixel line from start to stop, reducing size 80%, saving as a bad jpeg... I know, using new software this close to an event is not really the best of ideas, who knows what new problems, bugs, backdoors, etc. are in there... But I think we need something that Joe-Sixpack-Pilot (not you Joe :)) can use as a backup in case his FS-Flight-Analysis messes up. Give me some feedback! If you guys all tell me it's a piece of junk and show me that it's so, then I'll either get back to work or just drop it completely for this year.Just my 2 cents - and don't worry, I'll go along with any ruling the Bosses come up with :).John

[Sonar5 3]

But John,What Scenery, is this with added on mesh, photo real scenery, show me a flight where I can see this for myself.If no one can do so, I think a new install is the answer.Your program is very promising, but I think next year is the answer, not 13 days from today.And as for weather changes, I've never received any problems with weather changes and the FA screen.But when people are adding all kinds of things to their systems, shouldn't they take responsibility for what happens and the consequences of those additions.I suggest a clean install of FS9 on your work machine, and try to figure out why it is occurring on that one and not your home machine. Something is different about the two, so what add-ons are on the work machine that are not on the home machine.As for faking it, how about removing the how to's so the kids don't get any ideas.Thanks,JoeJOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

[Guest EasyEd]

Hey All,I use FS2k2 and I've seen FA screen "burps". By the time you see it you don't generally remember what keystrokes you used to inadvertently create it. I think Jeron has hit the nail right on the head when he said don't mess with ANY FS setting(s) during the flight because then you do run the risk of a "burp" - I suspect this is where mine have come from. There is also the possibility of addons being involved in creating the "burps" - I don't know.As to the use of duenna for this years race. I see no problem with using it. In fact I think some of the additional statistics it shows are valueable. I don't think it should be mandatory though - just as a option to the FA screen.Take Care! -Ed-

[Guest JohnMueller]

Hi JoeI don't want to get into an unnecessary discussion about the program, I know I'm biased because I put so much time into it :D. However I need to push the point that the PROBLEM is really there, it's not a figment of my imagination and it's certainly not something that I (or I imagine the others) do on purpose in order to cheat during the race. Heck, these are practice-legs, who cares about cheating? My office FS-Installation is 100% identical to my home installation - I mirrored the whole hard disk, including windows, everything, when I set up my home computer (ok, I had to install different drivers, nothing special). If anything, my home-computer should have this problem! I use very little addons, no Active-Camera, no Active-Weather (whatever), no FS-Screen, don't like to fly many aircraft, especially no complex ones; I take great care to keep my FS clean of unnecessary balast :). The only scenery I have installed is in Switzerland, far away from the legs in Alaska, USA, South-America, Australia ... Would a video from a clean FS-Installation convince you? Then what would the next step be after that?Remember, I'm not saying that we need to concentrate on this program and only use that for validation. However I believe we need a fall-back for the people who do have problems with the flight-analysis. Yours works fine? great! Mine just isn't reliable. And it's not just mine...John

[Guest Gnoopey]

Joe (Sonar5),your 'too few people' having had such 'burps' are at least two to many IMNSHO!Like John Mueller I'm also a pro in the IT business with a proven record as a programmer and system engineer / system architect with more than fifteen years of experience - especially with Windows servers. I am working now with 32-bit versions of this OS since the first public beta of Windows NT v3.1!And such 'burps' happened to me, too!I have also - a little bit if any - 'reputation' as a freeware 'designer' for M$ ©FS addons since 2001 ...Negotiating statements from several people coming from around the world with 'reps' like the ones from Fliger747 (SOH member and a real world 747-400 Captain!) or John Mueller (flightsim.com member) or from myself isn't very 'clever'.My main sim machine has a very clean install of FS9.1 - I bet that this is one of the cleanest to be found - anywhere, it doesn't matter...Your statement 'So let's figure it out' is the only way - if you'd check our forums (SOH), you'd see that I'd made similar statements quite a while ago! Mike, your 'team captain'? is well aware of this.Ask him if in doubt!John Mueller has now 'given us the possibility' to even better check if this could be figured out. What he has done, deserves a thank you - not a milisecond of 'bad thinking' and / or 'whining' like e.g. - "oh no, we do not want to change anything - it was always ok in the past" ....take a look into this one ==> http://www.cfcforums.com/showthread.php?t=11893or this one ==> http://www.cfcforums.com/showthread.php?t=13039what we cannot afford now, is that 'bad rumours' are now likely to come up ....folks - we take it serious - perhaps too serious - LOL ... but we shouldn't forget that it's a game and an event supposed to be FUN for everybody. To make that happen, it has to be open minded and as fair as possible!John Muellers work so far will 'only' raise the fairness level up one notch!nothing to 'fight against'kindest regardstom 'Gnoopey' kohler

[Guest JohnMueller]

Hi EdI really don't think it's anything you have to press or do to make it "Burp" (neat name). I watched my practice-leg during lunch, I surely didn't press anything - I was there eating my sandwitch (not burping :D) watching my fuel flow and trying to calculate my estimated reserves in my head when it started "loading scenery..." with the progress-bar. It did this twice in a 1:50-leg, each time I checked the flight-analysis a short bit afterwards and it showed me the "V" about where it started loading again. My PC isn't a hot-rod, my graphics-card came out of WWII (just a subjective feeling), but I can fly my legs just as good as anyone else (ok, not as good as everyone else, but there's worse out there) - I just want to fly some legs during the race!! (sorry, just not for Team Avsim, I hope that isn't the problem?)My suggestion guys: If you find a real reason why the flight-analysis in the Duenna is not as valid as the one in FS (and I can't fix it on time for you to re-test it properly), we'll count it out this year (at least). If not, the pilot can choose which one he wants to use / post. (It's a new piece of software, don't place all your bets on it; Pilots: try to get the FS-Flight-Analysis working anyway, I know I will.)John

[Sonar5 3]

Hi Tom,I am not easily impressed with titles, etc, and they are not relevant to the discussion, IMHO.Let's stick to the main points.You folks want to be able to use a brand new program, and cannot reproduce something that has only recently come up.Why have we not experienced these concerns over the last two years?Show me a flight where this occurs. The whole reason this came up is because you folks could not authenticate your flights, and most likely made changes. Even you admit to changing things mid-flight. Did any of you try a completely new install of FS9 and not add anything, and try the same flight again?And I agree that John's program is very promising and have stated so here:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...sg_id=555&page=I also reserve the right to comment on its use for this race. I will try to use it once I see a stable version of it. reading your other thread, I don't see that. I really am not interested in updating my version FSUIPC since mine works fine right now just to use John's program. I can do that after the race, and worry about screwing something up.There are but 13 days until race day, and if the judges agree, I'll abide by what they say.As for team captains, we don't have one at Avsim, we are just members, that's all.The race team is open to anyone who says "I have the Baton" at any point during the race.13 Days is a very short time. And I am not whining, the whining started when people started blaming FS instead of their own installs, or their own actions, IMHO. I'm still waiting for a verified flight where this will occur.I read your FA screen thread where you allude to the following.1) "Pause flight" causes icon.Solution, don't pause your flight during the race since you can't pause in real life.2) no.1 - plane switch on ground with flight plan already done makes this 'plane switch icon' also appear in about the 1st fourth of the later flown and completed flight route ???Solution: Choose aircraft first, then do your flight planner. or simply do a GPS direct to during the flight. Plenty of choices to avoid the disrupt icon there. A Plane switch is a plane switch.3)no. 2 - FS9 GPS gauge reset while in flight - can be forced when switching from full screen mode to windows mode and back when the FS9 GPS gauge is active on screen in a 'floating window' - causes also this 'bloody plane switch icon' to appear as described above???Interesting, Does the GPS run in floating window while in full screen mode, or only Windowed mode. Does it stay in the background? Your solution seems to be closing the GPS Floating window prior to switching screen mode. Your floating window would not be visible anyway unless you do a switch to windowed mode. if that resets, simple, close the floating GPS before switching.4)no. 3 - using the flight planner via the menu while in flight and changing the flight plan also causes this 'dreaded icon' to appear (on the wrong point of the route)??Solution, why do you need to change the flight plan using the planner when the GPS has the Direct to function, which does not change the flight flown line. The validation has nothing to do with the route chosen line, it is only the route flown line. using the flight planner forces you to save the file right, that seems like a good reason to give a disrupt Icon, you created a new flight.I change to Direct To in the GPS quite often, and it has yet to invalidate the actual flight line.Your particular anamolies are your own creation, and can easily be avoided by simple choices that you as the pilot can avoid. Maybe if the others told us exactly what they did and when, we can advise them of things to avoid as well.Regards,JoeJOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

[Guest JohnMueller]

>Your anamolies are your creation, and can easily be avoided by>simple choices that you as the pilot can avoid.Sorry Joe, if this is your stance, I'm dissapointed. Did you read what I posted? Is everyone else incompetent? Must be. I hope you get a chance to see it live, on one of your own legs, during the race. Sorry to see the discussion end this way... no use in continuing the thread...John

[Sonar5 3]

Well, John, it is not up to you to end a thread I started, so the discussion may very well continue.I have stated that the program is promising, and I also stated I will abide by what the Judges say. I could not have been more clear.But look at the choices Tom made in his disrupt icon thread. The Icon should appear.1) He created a new flight by using the flight planner enroute. It is not designed to be used in that situation.2) he did perform a plane switch. He should have set it up ahead of time, but really a disrupt icon showing at the beginning airport would not be a problem, for the red line would still show form the start airport to the end airport, with only a < icon at the start.3) GPS gauge in full screen mode. You can't view it in full screen mode anyway, so why not close it before going into full screen mode.John,I think your program is an awesome addition, but I am worried about it for this race. Your own thread on this shows it to have problems, especially if people have a different version number of FSUIPC.As far as it being my stance. It is my opinion, and I am entitled to it. I also stated I will abide by whatever the judges say. I may not agree, but I will abide.So the thread is not ending because you say so, as this particular thread is separated from your program thread by asking for scenarios where anyone can fly it and experience this disrupt Icon caused by the program and not by the user.And I never said anyone is Incompetent, you made that analogy, not I. I said the problems may be due to add-ons, or the user changing something they should not have.JoeJOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

[Guest EasyEd]

Hi John,Yeah I suspect those burps can come from multiple causes. What you said reminded me that I'm pretty sure I've seen those burps happen around SE Alaska and British Columbia where I've a few addon meshes and such. Since I was flying for fun it didn't matter.As another method of verification - it occurs to me that a screen shot(s) of your GPS screen might be another way to reasonably verify a flight. I'm sure every plane in the race has a GPS even the WWII warbirds just like they did back then :). I realize that you can't read all the airport designators but the pattern of boundaries (countries, states, islands, etc) and scale coupled with the flight plan line and the route actually flown could be close enough to verify as reasonable.Take Care! -Ed-PS John I assume you got my email with the FS2k2 config file?

[Sonar5 3]

Ed,Other options are available and were available last year.From the Rules:"Upon the completion of the flight, the member opens the flight analysis window (or Map View, or some other window in Flight Simulator that displays flight path) and takes a screen shot (Print Screen key). This screen shot is then posted up onto this thread to authenticate the flight, along with the message that the "baton is free" at whatever airport they landed at."I believe the GPS only zooms out to 500 though, (I may be wrong on that), so that is where the other choices are there.I believe each forum has posted the rules from last year, so it is not like the FA screen was the only way to verify. There are multiple options, so thanks for pointing that out as well.Joe

[Guest JohnMueller]

Hi JoeSorry if I got a bit emotional, if I hadn't seen it with my own two eyes, several times, while eating a sandwitch (no crumbs falling onto the keyboard or joystick), I might take the same stand as you are taking. ;)Yes, my software has issues; if it didn't I wouldn't pass it off as freeware, I'd be a gazillionaire (as the worlds only programmer who makes programs without issues) sending serfs to pass the baton in real planes. All software has issues, some of them are big, some of them are small, some of them can be solved within 2 weeks, some take years - I've been a professional programmer for over 15 years now, even the oldest programs come up with new issues after that time! Regarding this program: what issues do we need to solve to make something as "valid" as the MS-Flight-Analysis?The question is not if these problems exist, you can plainly see that they exist. Why are they caused? I really don't think we can get that in two weeks. Outside of this race: who even cares? Why does it matter here? This is a gentlemans race as much as anything else. Anyone who asks me "how are the rules enforced?" I have to tell them "they aren't, you're expected to comply." No amount of flight-analysis will make this race 100%-fool-proof. It can't be done. And I really don't think that's the spirit behind the race! We aren't in it for a cash-prize, we're here for the fun. Let the pilots fly, fly as realistic as possible, let a leg count even if something small, out of their control, goes wrong. That's just my opinion, we'll let the judges decide what the final ruling will be, and I'll abide no matter what comes out. Heck, I might even fly in the office and hope the Burp doesn't arrive (maybe I should be drinking less Pepsi over lunch?).John

[Sonar5 3]

Wait a minute....THERE'S NO CASH....Oh forget it then.... Never Mind, I'm outta here... :-outtaNo problem, Like I said, I may like it for the race in 2006, and if the judges say ok for this race, then ok, but I may advise our members here to use the current 3 otions.1) map View2) flight Analysis3) GPSAnd tell them what not to do. I try to minimize the programs that run when I fly, and I would prefer to use what is given us and has worked the last two years.I asked in another thread about a timezone update someone had posted. I specifically won't install that thinking maybe that is it causing the disrupt Icons. Who knows?So if we already have 3 choices available, I just feel it is sufficient.I also think we may have all overlooked the other options in our haste to figure out the why's. Regards,Joe PS - John, I also read at your forums that your office PC has Windows 2000. Is it possible that maybe an add-on not designed for Windows 2000 could be causing this, even though FS9 is ok for win 2000, but maybe the add-on or something corrupting the disrupt icon is causing this? Is your Home system Windows XP, and if so, running FS9 on two different platforms may be part of the cause. Just pure speculation here, and I am probably wrong, but you mentioned that your home system has not experienced this.Also Fliger talked about his laptop, what system is he running? JOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]