SIDS AND STARS

[russ69 0]

HI,I need some help with the STARs. I complete the SID, fly my flight plan expecting at the STAR start waypoint to be given my STAR but only get cleared for an approach.I made a flight plan from KRHV my home airport to Truckee up by Lake Tahoe. The SID name is SUNOL @ 5000 and the transition is MANTECA. The STAR name is HANGTOWN @11000 and the end point is SQAW @9500.The SUNOL SID went fine. After passing SUNOL ATC told me to climb to my cruising altitude of 11000 but when I got to the HANGTOWN VOR (HNW) and the start of the STAR it was never issued and finally when I passed the SQAW VALLEY VOR (SWR) I got cleared for the GPS-A approach. That wasn't bad but without a clearance to the IAF (LOLLA) I couldn't get there to perform it. I've probably done something wrong but don't recognize it. I hope I gave enough information, but would be glad to give more.I tried several other flights, one to Concord and another to South County with the same results. The flight to TRK takes too much time that's why I changed to Concord (CCR) (still too much time) and tried again with a still shorter one to South County (Q99). I had the same results with all three flights. Russ

[zfehr 1]

Hi Russ,I'm gonna try to take this up tonight and let you know how I do. It sounds like you are having trouble with any STAR so if I'm not having problems I'll try to talk you through the setup so you know what works.Have fun flyin'Zane

[zfehr 1]

Hi again Russ,I flew it last night with the same results you are getting. I think the problem lies in trying to use a STAR getting in to a non-tower aiport... not the norm. Also your crossing altitude for SWR should be no lower than 11,000ft. You could use the missed approach procedure for the GPS-A and fly to TRUCK at 11,800ft then back to LOLLA at 11,000ft. This is a very steep approach due the surrounding mountains so it is going to be difficult to get the aircraft down unless you have planned for such a steep approach, you should be no lower than 9,400ft when crossing the 5.0nm to MAP, you then have to lose 3,500 ft for landing so you have to be in landing configuration and slow by the time you pass this point.BTW I grew up flying out of KMOD and O22 so this flight was a very nice reminder of what I used to see out the window flying as a kid.

[russ69 0]

Zane,Thanks for your reply.I flew the route last night also. Actually I flew to the Reno Airraces for the day and flew back about 6 PM. Beautiful day.Of course your right uncontrolled airports don't usually have STARS associated with them (do any I wonder?). I'm trying to use the STAR to get the route I want; same for the SID.I've got to review my flights from last week to be sure but if I recall right I made a flight to CCR which is of course towered and obtained the same results. Looking at the VoxATC SID & STAR Setup page I see I made the SUNOL SID again but this time with a SALAD transition and a STAR called COLLI starting at COLLI and ending at the CCR VOR intersection called CONCORD. Looking at it this AM, I can see now I should used KANAN intersection as the end of the STAR.Do the intersetions used in a SID or STAR have to have five letters?I started and ended the STAR at 5100, no change in altitude. Is that OK?On the flight to CCR as soon as I made the turn at SUNOL toward SALAD I was given a clearance for the NDB at CCR. That was OK but I was looking for the STAR. Of course I could have changed the approach to the one I wanted but what I did not get was the STAR.Is my flight too short?Thanks.Russ

[zfehr 1]

>Zane,>>Thanks for your reply.>>I flew the route last night also. Actually I flew to the Reno>Airraces for the day and flew back about 6 PM. Beautiful>day.>>Of course your right uncontrolled airports don't usually have>STARS associated with them (do any I wonder?). I'm trying to>use the STAR to get the route I want; same for the SID.>You won't have an associated SID or STAR with an uncontrolled airport because there is no traffic control at the towerless field, you won't be directed into an area where there isn't control over the other traffic... makes sense really.>I've got to review my flights from last week to be sure but if>I recall right I made a flight to CCR which is of course>towered and obtained the same results. >I didn't try this but if there is a tower you should be able to use the programmed STAR.>Looking at the VoxATC SID & STAR Setup page I see I made the>SUNOL SID again but this time with a SALAD transition and a>STAR called COLLI starting at COLLI and ending at the CCR VOR>intersection called CONCORD. Looking at it this AM, I can>see now I should used KANAN intersection as the end of the>STAR.>In real life you really don't get to pick and choose your departure and arrival, you get told what to do by ATC. In my experience flying GA I usually get given vectors and rarely fly a full SID or STAR.>Do the intersetions used in a SID or STAR have to have five>letters?>I know in the US most all intersections (at least all I can think) are composed of five letter identifiers, VOR's are three and NDB's are two.>I started and ended the STAR at 5100, no change in altitude.>Is that OK?>Fine, I've had approach assign an altitude and not deviate till intercepting glide slope.>On the flight to CCR as soon as I made the turn at SUNOL>toward SALAD I was given a clearance for the NDB at CCR. That>was OK but I was looking for the STAR. Of course I could have>changed the approach to the one I wanted but what I did not>get was the STAR.>You can ask for a full IFR approach from the options menu and then fly as published, otherwise VoxATC will look for the closest fit from its menu and assign that waypoint.>Is my flight too short?>Shouldn't make a real difference, I've even had some fun making flights to airports right next to each other... you'll get vectored out of the first traffic area and then vectored back in to the arrival field. A long way around and you certainly wouldn't hassle with this kind of thing in real life.>Thanks.>>Russ>>No problem, have fun flyin'