Random CTD's, Hardware or Software issue?

[Guest Raptor483]

I have been having a problem with CTD ever since I built my new computer. I upgraded my computer back in November to a up to dtae, fast system. One of the first games I installed was FS9. I went crazy on it and began to install every add-on I had on my old computer onto my new one. The main programs that I uses and add-ons are: AS6.5, Ultimate Terrain, GE Pro,FSNav 4.7, PMDG 737-NG, Track IR pro, and FS9 is updated to 9.1. After my first install of FS9 I would run all these programs at once and would try to fly from A to B. I would get random CTD during the flight. FS9 would just shutdown and I would be looking at the desktop. No error message or anything. I began to troubleshoot the problem by trying different planes and settings. It didn't matter what plane it was, I would always CTD after about 15-20 min. of flying. There would also be times were I go to the menu to select a different plane and FS9 would CTD. I began to read and search on forum boards about CTD. This being my first time dealing with this sort of thing, I spent days reading and trying to figure things out. I realized that CTD could be anything from conflicting scenery to addon aircraft to hardware problems. I really didn't and still don't know where to begin with this problem. I figured I would stop running some programs while I was flying. When I was getting CTD I was flying out of SEA and heading east. I had all the programs I mentioned above running, except ASV6.5. Without AS running I didn't get a CTD, so I did several more flights without AS and just had FS9 real world weather running. I never got a CTD during those flights. But who can live without the single best add-on for FS9, not me! So back to the forums I go. I read a post about updating your BIOS and Chipset drivers for my motherboard. I installed those and things seemed to be working fine for a while. I was able to run AS and everything was going good. But several days later the CTD returned. I finally decided to reinstall everything from scratch. I removed FS9 and all leftover add-ons still inside the FS9 directory. I figured I would begin with one add-on at a time. Installed FS9 then the patch. I flew several dozens of flights and no CTD. Next, I installed PMDG737. Several flights later no CTD. ASV6 same thing, no CTD. I got UT and still no CTD. Installed SB3.0 did several online flights and no CTD. I then installed GE Pro and what do you know my first CTD on the re-install. I thought I had it nailed, "GE Pro is the cause." Well what simmer can live without another great add-on, not me so I had to figure something out. Just for testing purposes I opened UT and disabled a few things thinking GE and UT were conflicting somewhere . I had only the following options enabled in UT. Enhanced Roads, Enhanced Railroads FS2004 objects: All selected, Enhanced Lakes, Coast and Rivers, Enhance Streams. I turned off Enhanced streams and tried FS9 again. I had all the same programs running as before. Did many online flights and no problem. I thought that I had finally gotten rid of the problem. Then today I was getting ready to fly out of KDAL to KLIT, a flight I just did the day before, and back to the same old problem, another CTD. I have tried everything that I know of, short of testing my hardware. After all this typing and boring stories of my CTD experiences, I basically want to know what your suggestions are. How can you tell the difference between a software issue or a hardware issue. I love flying so much, but it is very discouraging when CTD seem to be looming somewhere over my computer. If you have any suggestions please help!Here are my new comp specs.Intel Core 2 Duo 6700Nforce 680i MotherboardEvga 8800gtxRaptor 150GB 10,000 r.p.m. HDCorsair XMS2 2gig

[Guest Yak Yak]

can you be more specific with the description of the CTD?does fs9 simply just close without any error messages (*pop* and you're back to the desktop)? or do you get the typical "send info to vendor" crash? Or worse, the BSoD (which in most cases, is hardware related). If you get the crash error, click on more info to see what's causing it, or post a screenshot here.does fs9 ever crash when loading? those add-ons you have are all very mainstream and well tested, so they are probably not the cause of your crashes (unless they are conflicting, but GE-UT, etc do not depend on each other). However, there was a problem (ctd) with PMDG aircrafts and UT-Europe (when you make long-haul flights). However, a patch has fixed that.Try a few things to narrow it down.don't disable anything, but simply load an aircraft, say PMDG, start the engines, and just let it sit there for a hour or two. If fs9 crashes, then you have a memory leak. also scan all your AFCADs for dups <- usual sign of dups are flashing runways (two textures z-fighting).CTDs are hard to narrow down, but they can be tracked if you can repeat them over and over. i've noticed you have the 8800gtx. This is a fairly new card which might not "play" well with older games. FS9 is a pretty old game by today's standards. anyways, keep this post updated and i'm sure we can narrow it down.-feng

[ghiom 2]

can someone confirm to me that a FS9 crash happening in this manner:1) FS9 freezes2) FS9 vanishes with no error messageis due to a memory leak?Thank youGhiom

[Guest Raptor483]

Thanks for the reply. Well, There is no error message when FS9 crashes. It just throws me out of the game and I am looking at my desktop. Nothing pops-up after that. FS9 never crashes while loading. However, I had just got done installing FSGenesis Freeware Mesh Scenery, Southwest U.S., and Rockies, and I went to KLAS to test and after the loading was finished I saw my plane sitting on rwy 25R for about half a second and then it CTD. I hadn't had any CTD in a few days prior to me installing FSGenesis. So, I uninstalled FSGenesis, ran the same scenario and it didn't CTD anymore. It seems that these CTD are very random and appear out of nowhere. I don't think it is a memory leak, as I have flown a strait 8-12 hours on VATSIM and never had a CTD. But, like I said, yesterday I wasn't on the sim 10 minutes and FS9 crashed. How can you determine if you have a memory leak?What causes a memory leak, bad stick of RAM? I close many of the unused processes under task manager, so I don't think anything is using up my memory as much. The 8800 gtx is a great card. It really makes FS9 shine. I have the latest drivers for the 8800 and keep my video card settings on the highest AA and AF. If anyone has the 8800 and is getting the same CTD as I am, please post here and tell us about it.Thanks for your help.-Jared

[Bob Scott 7,721]

It may have to do with large-volume disk transfers associated with scenery loading.There's a known issue with the nVidia 680i chipset that was causing all sorts of problems with high-bandwidth SATA disk transfers...was fixed by a recent BIOS upgrade on my eVGA 680i mobo. Recommend first that you check that your mobo has the most recent BIOS available.My second guess would be a possible issue with bad memory in the higher reaches of your address space...run MemTest 86+ through 5-10 cycles, and a good 12 hours of Orthos wouldn't hurt either, to further rule out a hardware issue.Are you overclocking? If so, voltages on the CPU and RAM could be an issue. The MemTest86+ and Orthos tests should rule that out as an issue as well.FWIW, I am using an eVGA 680i mobo, with an X6800 Conroe, and an 8800GTX (97.28 drivers). Works very well with FSGenesis, UT, AS6.5, and a complex plane all running together.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[Guest Raptor483]

That is very helpful information Bob, Thanks!Just wondering about how you go about checking what version of the BIOS I am running? I haven't overclocked anything, just because I don't really know how to. I would like to talk to you some more Bob about this issue since you seem to have a very similar setup as me. I will try those test and see what the outcome is. Again thanks for the very helpful information.-Jared

[Bob Scott 7,721]

Which 680i board are you using?If you bought your mobo in Nov and haven't flashed the BIOS, then you don't have the update, which was released by nVidia in late December. See http://www.nvidia.com/object/680i_hotfix.htmlThere are update instructions for all of the 680i-based mobos there.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[HoratioWondersocks 4]

My sympathies are with you.There is nothing more frustrating than the CTD completely spoils your simming as you are always waiting for it to happen.Anyway i also till recently was having the same problem as you CTD sometimes whilst setting up the flight and sometimes in the flight POOOOF!no error message nothing.I seemed to have solved mine by deleting my addon scenery folder and replacing it with a new empty one.The folder i deleted had all sorts of stuff that i didn't even recognise anymore.It meant that i lost a lot of afcads but they are easily replaced and since i did this no more CTDs and i have done a lot of thousand mile trips (three hours approx)just to test it out and no more CTDs.I believe the Addon scenery folder can cause problems because if things become messed up the sim tries to load something that is no longer there or corrupt and that causes the CTD.Finally i must say i am NO EXPERT i am just saying what worked for me and the addon folder defiantly seemed to be the cause of my troubles.PS I also tried uninstalling reinstalling didn't work.Uninstalling and removing all saved folders option...didnt work.Uninstalling after clean boot and reinstalling after clean boot....didn't work.Using system restore and all of the above didnt work.Replaced Addon Folder......Worked......So far anyway.Hope you get it sorted.cheers Andy

[Guest Raptor483]

Thanks Andy for those helpful hints. Well Bob, I checked to see if my BIOS was updated and it wasn't. I installed the update and will check back with you to see if it worked. I also ran ORTHOS for a little over 14 hours and got 0 errors. I havent had a chance to try Memtest86. I am kinda confused about how to run it. Anyway, thanks for the information. I am off to fly for several days to see if this worked. BTW Bob, were you getting these CTD when you first built your system or had you already installed the hotfix before you installed FS9?Thanks-Jared

[Bob Scott 7,721]

No, but there were many other issues until I slowed my 1000 MHz RAM down to 800 MHz and disabled all but the primary SATA port, which stopped all the errors prior to the BIOS update. Post-update, I am able to run the RAM at full speed with all the SATA ports open.When you run the MemTest86+ executable, it creates a bootable floppy for you. Put that floppy into the drive, make sure the BIOS is set to boot from floppy before the HDD, and reboot. The PC will boot right into the memory test program. When you're done, just remove the floppy from the drive and reboot.BTW, what voltage are you running your RAM at?RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[Guest Raptor483]

Well, Bad news! I am still getting CTD after the BIOS update. I just don't understand. Is it possibly a overheating issue? The temp. during FS9 can range anywhere from 140-149F. Is that too hot? If it is a overheating issue, would FS9 CTD like it has been doing? I am running out of options. I checked my voltages for my RAM and they are set at 1.850v. I guess that is normal. I haven't overclocked anything. I left everything at the default value. I am getting very discouraged.Thanks for any information you can provide.-Jared

[Bob Scott 7,721]

65 deg C on the CPU is warm, but not excessively so.Check your Corsair RAM docs...I doubt very much that those DIMMs are rated at 1.85v...probably more like 2.0-2.1v or higher depending on the speed. But if you can run Orthos for 14 hours with it set the way you have it, it's not likely the cause.Looks like your hardware is basically sound, although I'd still double check your RAM voltage and run the memory test.Have you installed the latest (Oct 06) DirectX 9c? Which nVidia video drivers are you running? Sound card drivers?Have you tried to reproduce the CTD in a different geographical area, preferably one with no add-on scenery? Try a flight over a place without add-ons, like Cuba perhaps.Is the CTD occurring with different aircraft?Try running Filemon while FS is running and see of there are a lot of failed file lookups, perhaps for effects or textures for a badly installed AI plane.Make sure there are no empty "texture" folders anywhere that FS9 goes.RegardsBob Scott ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[Bob Scott 7,721]

I just reviewed my system build notes and see something else worth mentioning. I don't see anything in your earlier posts about ATC...second only to the seasonal CTD bug that was fixed with the v9.1 patch, was the dreaded ATC.DLL CTD. If you have your ATC turned off to facilitate using Radar Contact or SquawkBox, it's CTD-city until you put the RemoveATC=Yes option in your FSUIPC.ini, assuming you use the registered version of FSUIPC.I had a number of encounters with this long-since slain dragon after my rebuild...sometimes the CTD will leave you with an error popup, sometimes it just drops you right to the desktop. I had forgotten about that one, and spent the better part of a weekend pulling my hair out until I chanced across it in the FSUIPC docs while looking for something else.Good luck!Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[Guest Raptor483]

What would be the advantage to running RAM at a higher voltage?I didn't have the latest video drivers, or directx. I installed the video drivers without a problem, however I ran into a problem with installing the update for directx. I got some error message, not sure what it was. The CTD occurs with any plane. I haven't tried any of the default aircraft, but I will. What is interesting is that I played FS9 after the re-install for several days with the PMDG 737 and FS9.1 patch installed. Those were the only things that were installed and I never had a CTD. It was only after I installed GE Pro that I had my first CTD. It seems as if it is something that has to do with add-on scenery. I tried that ATC.dll. I will let you know if that works. Something else to mention, yesterday I installed FlightScenery KPDX and got a strange Error followed by a CTD. The error prompted and said g3d.dll encountered and error. That has to be the first error message I have gotten that actually prompted and error. Not sure if it has something to do with the scenery I installed or what.I downloaded some software off of AVSIM called Scanafd.exe. It is supposed to scan for duplicate anything inside of FS9, but I am not sure how to use it after reading the documentation. I don't want to start deleting files and FS9 stops working. I will continue to trouble shoot and find the problem. Any more help would be appreciated.Thanks-Jared

[Bob Scott 7,721]

The failure on the DX9 update really troubles me...a dorked DX9 install means all bets are off in any PC game that uses it. And a G3D.DLL error is also related to your video subsystem. Need to figure that one out I think.Have you tried running with AI turned to 0? Bad textures in AI planes can do this as well as bad sceneries or duped AFCADs.You want to run your RAM at least at its rated voltage. A higher voltage (within limits) can enhance signal rise times and stabilize things a bit at the expense of producing more heat...when overclocking RAM, generally a moderate voltage increase is warranted. My eVGA 680i board has a default Vdimm of 1.80, but my Mushkin Redline DDR2-8000 DIMMs are rated to run at least at 2.1v. The mobo does not automatically detect and adjust the Vdimm...it has to be done manually in the BIOS.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile