B 707 recommendations?

[JSACKS 0]

Bob:Fair enough. I understand. I just want a good VC for an old steam gauge plane. I love the 727 but I really need the 707 to feel complete. I no longer do 12 hour flights in FS, no time. I practice takeoffs, climbouts, climb to cruise, descent, approach and landing (preferably in a t-storm with windshear), and do as much as possible by hand these days.JS

[Bob Scott 7,720]

>I just want a good VC for an old steam gauge plane. I love>the 727 but I really need the 707 to feel complete. I no>longer do 12 hour flights in FS, no time. I practice>takeoffs, climbouts, climb to cruise, descent, approach and>landing (preferably in a t-storm with windshear), and do as>much as possible by hand these days.I like that sort of flying too...which is why the EPR gauge is such a problem, given that it's the primary thrust reference for the JT3.It's possible to hobble along with N1 RPM, but it's intensely annoying to have the EPR gauges staring me in the face with bogus and unusable readings.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[JSACKS 0]

Are the EPR readings just plain inaccurate and/or made up ?Js

[Bob Scott 7,720]

The value that FS9 computes for EPR is bad. I believe FS2002 had the same issue. For example, at idle on the ground I think it's around 1.6, where it should be close to 1.0.In the TinMouse II B737-200 panel, I use the mathematical relationship between the N1 RPM (corrected for pressure/temp) and EPR to compute the value displayed by the gauge.Captain Sim could have easily fixed this (and a lot of other problems) a long time ago, but they have an established track record of getting almost there and then essentially abandoning a project once released. The bearing pointer on the C-130 HSI is another case in point...identified at release, ignored in SP1, then promised for SP2 which in well over a year has not materialized.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[RFields5421 1]

However, when the Dreamfleet 727 came out, it seems that a lot of people dumped the CS model and said it was total $#!t and rejoiced over the DF model instead. I have the CS B727 - the first payware aircraft I ever bought - thus the longest lived on my system. I still fly it a few hours every month.However, the DF is a better aircraft - solely from the time angle alone if nothing else.The CS B727 is a FS2002 aircraft, patched and updated to work with FS2004.The DF B727 was designed for FS2004, with a couple years learning and experience behind it.Personally, I think people who come on these forums and demonize one product to promote another are either (1) semi-employees being compensated - maybe with free aircraft - to "sell" the new product; or (2) unsure of the worth of their purchase and can only justify it in their minds by running down other products.There are a lot of very good aircraft out there. By and large the newer the model/ release - the better the aircraft.But I strongly urge people to try a freeware if available first. Then consider buying a payware.I'm happy to see HJG getting away from FS98 aircraft panel standards and the stupid FSound.dll file with their latest panels.The Dreamfleet

[Ricardo41 5,949]

Well, this thread over at CSs forum should clear things up..... or not. http://www.captainsim.net/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1167029007ricardo

[Guest AOA]

HiNice job RiccardoIt`s things like this that made up my mind to neither buy nor reccomend CS products.It`s to me incredible that they still have folks that will stick up for CS considering the way they are screwing their customers.Pete

[Paul J 349]

I once mentioned the DF727 and the CS727 together in the same post. . .All references to the DF model disappeared within an hour or two. They're s t r a n g e people. . .

[StamPilot 4]

>First of all, CS has modelled what I call the "Willie Nelson>goes to Jamaica" edition: upon engaging the autopilot, the>plane will bob up and down just like Willie Nelson on ganja.>>Secondly, it appears that Boeing, in a spectacular feat of>engineering ingenuity, have managed to slap three engines on a>four engine plane. (You'll realize this as you start the>engine and listen to the cockpit voices). >>Taken together with the "thick manuals", the superb support,>and the promise of a 9,000 gigabyte update - how can you, I>ask you, go wrong with this addon?>Interesting, why did you dig up 3 months old topic? Hmmm, yes, I see, CS bashing persists....1. Just in case you do not have time I will help you. Go to CS support page http://www.captainsim.com/cgi-bin/kb.pl?p=b707&i=21 and download the patch for autopilot. I did this long time ago.2. Is the error in cockpit voices so significant that you decided to tell about it to everybody? If I ask you to name me ANY addon without bugs, you will not be able to do so.Where is this said about ...... gigabyte update? Have I missed anything? But you know I just have an impression that this kind of posts at forum are useless and non-constructive.

[Paul J 349]

>this kind of posts at forum are useless and non-constructive.>Not really. I have both the CS and the DF 727, and only fly the DF version. I would LIKE a 707, and haven't purchased the CS model because of their bad press. I wouldn't have known above the above details - and the fixes - if there was no dialogue here - right? This post has been useful for me, at least, and I now might end up buying one. Many Thanks, Dougal and Bob!

[GusRodrigues 1]

>No complaints, though, when I bought it I already knew I was>getting an incomplete abandoned project that looks good but>needs a lot of work and some patience and tolerance for the>absurd. I never read before such kind of perfection about the 07 and 27 from CS.The 2d panel is awesome. very very immersible (more the DF panel. imho). But the fact they released an incomplete project, just makes me wonder if they really develop and test they aircraft. Also, everyone is waiting for the Block F for the 757... maybe is in outer space with the SST.

[Guest JTEK99]

>Interesting, why did you dig up 3 months old topic? Hmmm, yes,>I see, CS bashing persists....>1. Just in case you do not have time I will help you. Go to CS>support page>http://www.captainsim.com/cgi-bin/kb.pl?p=b707&i=21 and>download the patch for autopilot. I did this long time ago.Well, he would, I'm sure, but CapSim seems to be out of the picture for some reason. Some say they've basically bailed out on customers (wouldn't that be a surprise?).Do you have any information on them, seeing as a search of your nick reveals several hundred "CaptainSim is the BEST!!" style of posts. I thought you might be an insider.>But you know I just have an impression that this kind of posts>at forum are useless and non-constructive.For Useless and/or Non-Constructive posts, see the CaptainSim forums.

[strider 0]

The CS 727 doesn't come close to comparing with the Dreamfleet version. The systems integration and "non-bugs" make the DF 727 THE definitive payware 727. The CS 707 is a ridiculous charicature of a payware addon aircraft and should not even be considered...especially as the "foretold" fixes haven't been seen for over 2 years?? I own all 3 and the only reason I fly the CS 707 is because it's the only one out there...otherwise I would delete it from my system, using 32x overwrite, to be completely free of it. I have done so with the CS 727 as I would never fly it again after flying the DF 727. If you don't mind completely bogus fuel flows, most systems not even modelled (dummy buttons you push for no other reason than to satisfy your desire for "As real as it gets"), the #3 turbo compressor linked to the wrong engine...and on and on and on...then, by all means, spend your hard earned money on the CS 707. This is NOT "mob mentality" and I think many of us who find the CS 707 extremely lacking resent that implication. It's not a "mob" but, rather, a vast MAJORITY of us who fly with realism in mind that find this POC vastly lacking. Lacking in initial testing, lacking in systems, lacking in "fixes"...just darn LACKING. Perhaps you just jump into a started aircraft, at the end of a runway, and fly. Perhaps you don't care about operating each system as a real pilot would (or as close as FS allows). Maybe you don't care WHAT engine your #3 turbo compressor is REALLY hooked to. Maybe you don't care if your AP is so wrong as to be laughable (and I'm not talking about it being engaged before you are straight and level...that's a given with a 707). Maybe all sorts of eye-candy make up for the extreme dificiencies in the CS 707. In that case, go ahead and buy the CS 707. On the other hand...if you enjoy walking into a "Cold & Dark" aircraft and starting from the beginning, if you want at least SOME of your systems actually modelled (pressurization, electrical, hydraulics, etc.), if you would like a button to actually connect to the proper equipment...then go nowhere NEAR the CS 707. It's up to you...what do you want...realism...or pretty? And I find the DF 727 much "prettier" than the CS version...so that shoots that whole eye-candy argument in the foot. If it was me...I'd go with the freeware 707's currently available. I'm so disgusted with the CS 707 I'm thinking of doing just that. Vic

[strider 0]

I am neither "(1) semi-employees being compensated " nor "(2) unsure of the worth of their purchase and can only justify it in their minds by running down other products." After all these years of fighting for our ability to speak truly about payware, good or bad, I find your simplistic, and completely wrong, view of why I comment a certain way ridiculous. I have been FS'ing since FS95 and I've flown any aircraft I comment on. My comments come from the "As real as it gets" side of FS. I want to start up my aircraft from scratch, maybe you start on the runway, ready to fly. I want to set my pressurization...you like setting nothing, I like manually starting every engine, in the proper order, following prescribed procedures...you push "CTRL+E". Do NOT attempt to categorize those of us who have SERIOUS problems with any addon. You will be sadly mistaken. Because you find an inferior product (to us) "acceptable" does not mean we ALL should. Your standards are, obviously, much lower than ours and we will not lower our standards because you think we are:"(1) semi-employees being compensated ""(2) unsure of the worth of their purchase and can only justify it in their minds by running down other products." We are COMPLETELY aware of the worth of our purchased products, and have never resorted to "running down another product" to make our purchased product look better. I'm sorry...you must have us confused with the 6th grade forum at you local elementary school. We don't do that here. When a member here states that he has "issues", we take him seriously. All the documented CS issues are MORE than enough to overwhelm your support of that very poor "designer". In the future I would recommend that you NOT insult people here about their views but, rather, be quiet and listen to those who know so much more than you (apparently) do. Insulting the membership because some of us find the CS products "extremely lacking", while others are perfectly happy in it's mediocrity, will not serve you well here. We have no "Hidden agenda", as you so suggested. We simply have different "needs", when it comes to FS. I, like many, prefer realism. You, obviously, prefer jumping into a 707 and flying off with no regard to weight, fuel...or any other thing. So be it. BUT...DO NOT INSULT US who require addon payware to fulfill certain "reality" requirements. I don't work for DreamFleet...they just happen to make the best #### airliners! I have no issues with my payware purchases...I've bought the CS 727 and 707...and they both suck! You might want to consider a new career...something outside of "psychoanalization from text". Perhaps an ambulance chasing lawyer? Vic

[strider 0]

I'm with you...I've never heard such a "kind" statement?I've heard:"the glass is half full""the glass is half empty" I've never heard:"The glass is completely empty...but it may magically fill itself"? Dude...the glass is EMPTY!