Sign in to follow this  
ahinterl

Wilco A320 - another one

Recommended Posts

Just to be clear and to put the point to bed, I in NO WAY feel that PSS's airbus was even good when it was released. So let's move away from PSS's Airbus. Quite frankly, I don't think any of their products are that good. Now, it may well be Wilco's problem for releasing this unfinished product and Feelthere may well be left with their pants down. Quite frankly, I feel SORRY for Feelthere but they are left holding the bag but someone has my $50 so they are going to have to suck it up.I really don't want to hear that other's have bugs in their products. If that's the case why bother to tell your children to do good in school if they can say that other kids slack off and get low grades why shouldn't I? Why tell people to work hard when they can point to other's who don't work hard and bilk Welfare all their lives, surely they can use that as an excuse? The same applies here. SOMEONE HAS TO RAISE THE BAR. Someone has got to step up and break the status quo and put the absolute best foot forward. I am a realist and know that there is no such thing as a perfect software release. It is impossible with today's technology. However, if Vista was missing the Start Bar, would it not be an obvious mistake? If Feelthere was, say, missing the CLOCK, would that not an obvious mistake? For the record Vista is NOT missing the Start Bar but the A320 IS missing the clock!!!! Maybe the "real pilots" don't use the clock in the real A320 so they didn't notice?As I said, Feelthere is not to blame for the timing of the release and they apparently never gave Wilco their blessing to release the product in its current state, its a very raw deal for Vic and the team at Feelthere. HOWEVER, money has exchanged hands so my pity has severe limitations at this point. The reality is that the product is available for download and their credit card machine is accepting money, therefore, when I receive an obviously unfinished and untested product someone is going to reap the whirlwind.To take a line from 'Full Metal Jacket': "It's a big $#!* sandwhich and their all going to have to take a bite". Unfortuntely Feelthere is going to have to belly up to the table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

"I am a realist and know that there is no such thing as a perfect software release. It is impossible with today's technology. However, if Vista was missing the Start Bar, would it not be an obvious mistake? If Feelthere was, say, missing the CLOCK, would that not an obvious mistake? For the record Vista is NOT missing the Start Bar but the A320 IS missing the clock!!!! Maybe the "real pilots" don't use the clock in the real A320 so they didn't notice?"LOLOL!!!!! That was hilarious!One a continuing point, I just don't understand the mindset of people who keep purchasing payware on the day of release. IT sends the wrong statement to the developers. I also don't get why people use the ol' "every payware has it's problems" argument as if that somehow eases their anger at Feelthere's Airbus. I have not bought Airbus, as usual I wait almost a year before purchasing anything payware, I learned the hard way years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dillon,On that I beg to agree!Would bet even money that we will see the FT Bus flying as we all expect (maybe the Bus volume two even . . .) before the FSX flyers see a patch.Joe Lorenc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:-lol I don't know about that but I will say we'll see it flying the way it should before it's all said and done with FSX (FSX/Vista/DX10)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike if you can legally sell your copy of the FT Airbus series 1, I'll buy it from you. I wanted to test it out myself, but don't want to pay $50.00 if it's bad, so you'll have to give me a discount of course. "Why can't all addon developers be more like Cloud9?" - Jeff 07'Jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>-annoying gap in the APU soundi love people pointing this issue ... as the APU sound must be on the top 10 list of issues jetliner developers contend and tear out their hair:the APU cannot be heard in most airliners from the cockpit (not the flaps, cabin calls, etc.) another fun sound complaint: the engine sounds. these are different in cockpit than for those sitting in the cabin (where 99% of simmers are if they fly r/w). engine tone changes depending on your seat location (why the old DC9/MD80/MD90/717 are quiet when forward of the wings --- you can't hear the engines, only wind noise), but walk back to use the head ... WOW (esp. on the 9's). result for developers: simmers complain that 1) the engine sound is wrong; and 2) the wind noise is to loud. well yes, because your only experience is sitting in coach.what developers do with sound is take artistic license. some users enjoy what is modeled, others complain.FT got bashed at release of the 737 and later when issuing a patch that changing the trim wheel sound. prior to the patch the sound was incorrect (according to the majority). a simmer that works on REAL 737 classics recorded a trim wheel in operation and offered it as a mod. the overall response was positive from those wanting realism, so FT made this the standard sound. complaints: its to loud, its not right, is doesn't sound like the NGs ... i guess recording it off a real plane isn't 'real' enough.let us focus on the issues that make any developers aircraft unflyable - which to me are: CTDs, out of line flight dynamics, autopilot doesn't work, and the inability to set a flight plan (to name a few). ... and if you have one of these challenges, give the developer some respect by posting on his/her forum a description of the challenge and what was being done that cause the reproducible error. posting IT SUCKS does not help, it only shows the poster's lack of civility.i've put on my nomex and am ready for the flames.--

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought on feelthere continuing to use Wilco as publisher - isn't it possible they signed a multi-project deal in the past and may therefore be unable to switch publishers just now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dillon wrote:>You can't>praise the PSS 777 and put down the FeelThere 737's FDE when>the same designer has done both projects. Sure I can. Just like I can praise Tom Cruise for his work in The Last Samurai and at the same time tell him he sucked in Eyes Wide Shut. >This whole beef with FeelThere is BS. Feelthere (not Wilco)>are very much of the mindset of releasing the best product>they possibly can. A demonstration of that committment would be a really cool thing. Hint: this Wilco release fiaso doesn't 'zackly qualify in the "show us your committment" department. FeelThere does not get a pass...they CHOSE this publisher, and the release disaster is a result of their extremely poor choice. Now all eyes are upon them to see if they can make it right.>The mindless comments I'm hearing in this>thread is crap. I was thinking the same thing about your post here. Just because you don't agree does not make it "mindless." In fact, it seems to me your objectivity is severely in question here...you seem to have a vested interest as if you might actually be a participant in this debacle.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't catch the APU sound comment... :-roll For the record, we should never be able to hear the APU on any airliner...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote: "i love people pointing this issue ... as the APU sound must be on the top 10 list of issues jetliner developers contend and tear out their hair:"Well FT put it in there, not me, and if they take it out totally, fine. But it is reproducible, has been reported and is an example of lack of quality control. Hence the reason my list said "Really simple issues like. . ." ;-) I agree we shouldn't be pointing out these issues - but only because they shouldn't there in the first place.Joe Lorenc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"you seem to have a vested interest as if you might actually be a participant in this debacle."Whatever Bob... :-roll Mr. Johnny come late on this whole debate. I think most are done with this topic at this point including myself. I agree with Chris the original poster was trolling, some are going to hate FeelThere no matter what and everyone else is going to see what FeelThere ultimately does to address the lingering bugs.One thing we all can agree on is FeelThere needs to drop Wilco...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DONE...Vic Kill the APU Sound in the upcoming patch... :-)One bug down, 5 more to go according to your list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Mr. Johnny come late on this whole debate. >Yeah, I just fell off a turnip truck into the hobby yesterday.>I think most are done with this topic at this point including>myself. I think a lot of folks want to be done with the topic, particularly the ones that are going to continue being tarred and feathered until this gets made right.>One thing we all can agree on is FeelThere needs to drop>Wilco...On that we are in violent agreement.But I want Vic and the boys at Feelthere to answer me this one simple question: how did this partially complete product end up in Wilco's hands for a premature release? Did it wrap itself up in an installer and mail itself to Wilco? I just cannot accept Wilco as the lone culprit in this fiasco, and frankly I think less of FeelThere for not publicly accepting responsibility for their role in this customer service nightmare.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Dillon wrote:>>>You can't>>praise the PSS 777 and put down the FeelThere 737's FDE when>>the same designer has done both projects. >>Sure I can. Just like I can praise Tom Cruise for his work in>The Last Samurai and at the same time tell him he>sucked in Eyes Wide Shut.After reading this again, I want to make it clear I don't think Rob Young's FDE work on the FT ScareBus is bad...on the contrary, it's pretty good...only flaw I see is that it does need some work on the somewhat overpowered thrust curves.My point was to refute the flawed logic that good work on one project necessarily leads to the conclusion that work on any subsequent project has also got to be good. RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, fde is pretty nice, Like I've written in another post, edit in the air file the cd_ds value to 0.13 and the speed brakes have a better effect. I also adjusted the parasite drag to 1.12 to make the plane slightly less slippery together with a thrust_scalar of 0.96 to make it less overpowered.Just a do-it-yourself patch till the first sp comes out ;) (This is for the 320, didn't experiment with others yet)CheersMartin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MartinVery helpful...where do I find the cd_ds value? is that an add line--I found the other two--thrust scaler and parasite drag but could not locate cd_ds. ThanksRake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rake, the cd-ds (drag coeff spoiler) is in the air file, you need to edit with a program like AAM or aired. It's in the 1101 section.Martin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You'll have to go into the airfile for that one methinks and modify it using AirEd.On a totally unrelated subject, I have just done a CLN8M departure from Gatwick: no SIDs at all for Gatwick (the navdata FT provided is seriously useless) and the database didn't even have the ACORN waypoint but did have DET so at least I could enter PBD fixes from DET for the SID. The -4000 altitude constraint at DET D29 was not adhered to (I had entered it as -4000 as I do on the PSS) and I crossed it at 4600 feet. This makes me think - and + constraints are ignored and perhaps I should have entered 4000. But the 5000 feet constraint at ACORN (DET/281/15) was kept to as was the same constraint at DET itself so those seem to be OK although they display slightly incorrectly on the F-PLN page. Does anyone know if FT have implemented a way of entering "less than" and "more than" constraints as for example -4000 or +4000 doesn't seem to work?Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob, I've noticed this also. The navdata however seems to be a ms acces style like database. I will try tonight if it is possible to simply import some text file (with all the correct data) into this database.Martin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RobI experienced similar--climbout altitude restrictions are a bit dicey--I found that I have to "hand massage" autothrust and re-enter altitude restriction on the MCP and press the ALT button to intercept a reasonable lead level off altitude--would be nice if FMGC managed intermediate level offs better--suspect some interface issue with AUTOTHRUST--as you mentioned, if you're in a climbout power setting, the aircraft overshoots the altitude restriction. Not sure how to remedy that in the software.RakebusoverNY.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 0610 airac from feelthere.com seems much better although the CLN8M SID out of Gatwick needed some adjustment as it had lots of errors and couldn't be used "as is".I've just noticed that on the F-PLN page, after setting up everything correctly in the MCDU, that the estimated flight time is far too long. The PSS has always been very accurate when it came to this but the FT A320 is, shall we say, conservative. An A320 EGKK-BIKF flight is not 4 hours 11 mins even taking the north sea route!Nevertheless, there are things I'm beginning to like about this aircraft once you get over the niggles and the apparent lack of testing.Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessPSS Airbus Support andAirbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual airbus@speedbirdonline.co.ukhttp://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.htmlhttp://www.bavirtual.co.uk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this