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ahinterl

Wilco A320 - another one

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Dillon,I, as well as many others reading this, I'm sure, know full well the pains of trying to push issues through beta, and get them addressed. I can only (thankfully) imagine what a nightmare that same process would be, working with a publisher like Wilco. After all, it isn't just the customer getting screwed by this deal, as FeelThere's reputation has taken quite a beating, thanks to them, with each dramatic release they make.Where my sympathy fails, is when I consider that this is the 5th release they've made with Wilco. Kinda hard to feel sorry for the team that keeps coming back for more, ya know ?It's great to see the statements you've made re: Wilco, etc, but this goes to my earlier point in terms of your responsibility, it doesn't really mean much coming from you. I don't mean that disrespectfully, it's just that you are not FeelThere, and FeelThere have chosen to take the weekend off...I wish you and the rest of the team the best of luck with this as you get things back on track, I really mean that sincerely, but, allot of this is inexcusable, and I think you'd be well-served to stop making excuses where none suffice.

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"So for me it's generally OK, not great and not a big leap forward. Very good, smooth FDE but nothing else really grabs me over the PSS."Rob why do you think most pilots don't like Airbuses??? Their not as engaging as Boeings in simulation as well as in the real world. Very automated straight forward systems. Basically the plane does everything for you kind of concept. I'm sure AirlinerXp will offer a few surprises but all in all at the end of the day it will become apparent why Boeings are the preferred plane to fly over Airbus in the real world... I'm just glade we're seeing real Airbuses in FS now versus how it was before... :-)

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"Where my sympathy fails, is when I consider that this is the 5th release they've made with Wilco. Kinda hard to feel sorry for the team that keeps coming back for more, ya know ?"Sadly I agree 100%... :-roll"I think you'd be well-served to stop making excuses where none suffice."I'm not making excuses for FT's decision here concerning Wilco, I'm talking about the product in general. I can't let someone stating this product is like PSS's 4 year old Airbus pass. Many people worked hard on this. It's a shame it got released before it was fully ready...

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"Regarding the "mindset of RELEASING the best product they possibly can" sorry - but there are just too many simple bugs to buy that (let alone the major ones)"I can say the same thing about Aces and FSX... :-roll

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Just to be clear and to put the point to bed, I in NO WAY feel that PSS's airbus was even good when it was released. So let's move away from PSS's Airbus. Quite frankly, I don't think any of their products are that good. Now, it may well be Wilco's problem for releasing this unfinished product and Feelthere may well be left with their pants down. Quite frankly, I feel SORRY for Feelthere but they are left holding the bag but someone has my $50 so they are going to have to suck it up.I really don't want to hear that other's have bugs in their products. If that's the case why bother to tell your children to do good in school if they can say that other kids slack off and get low grades why shouldn't I? Why tell people to work hard when they can point to other's who don't work hard and bilk Welfare all their lives, surely they can use that as an excuse? The same applies here. SOMEONE HAS TO RAISE THE BAR. Someone has got to step up and break the status quo and put the absolute best foot forward. I am a realist and know that there is no such thing as a perfect software release. It is impossible with today's technology. However, if Vista was missing the Start Bar, would it not be an obvious mistake? If Feelthere was, say, missing the CLOCK, would that not an obvious mistake? For the record Vista is NOT missing the Start Bar but the A320 IS missing the clock!!!! Maybe the "real pilots" don't use the clock in the real A320 so they didn't notice?As I said, Feelthere is not to blame for the timing of the release and they apparently never gave Wilco their blessing to release the product in its current state, its a very raw deal for Vic and the team at Feelthere. HOWEVER, money has exchanged hands so my pity has severe limitations at this point. The reality is that the product is available for download and their credit card machine is accepting money, therefore, when I receive an obviously unfinished and untested product someone is going to reap the whirlwind.To take a line from 'Full Metal Jacket': "It's a big $#!* sandwhich and their all going to have to take a bite". Unfortuntely Feelthere is going to have to belly up to the table.

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"I am a realist and know that there is no such thing as a perfect software release. It is impossible with today's technology. However, if Vista was missing the Start Bar, would it not be an obvious mistake? If Feelthere was, say, missing the CLOCK, would that not an obvious mistake? For the record Vista is NOT missing the Start Bar but the A320 IS missing the clock!!!! Maybe the "real pilots" don't use the clock in the real A320 so they didn't notice?"LOLOL!!!!! That was hilarious!One a continuing point, I just don't understand the mindset of people who keep purchasing payware on the day of release. IT sends the wrong statement to the developers. I also don't get why people use the ol' "every payware has it's problems" argument as if that somehow eases their anger at Feelthere's Airbus. I have not bought Airbus, as usual I wait almost a year before purchasing anything payware, I learned the hard way years ago.

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Dillon,On that I beg to agree!Would bet even money that we will see the FT Bus flying as we all expect (maybe the Bus volume two even . . .) before the FSX flyers see a patch.Joe Lorenc

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:-lol I don't know about that but I will say we'll see it flying the way it should before it's all said and done with FSX (FSX/Vista/DX10)...

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Mike if you can legally sell your copy of the FT Airbus series 1, I'll buy it from you. I wanted to test it out myself, but don't want to pay $50.00 if it's bad, so you'll have to give me a discount of course. "Why can't all addon developers be more like Cloud9?" - Jeff 07'Jeff

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>-annoying gap in the APU soundi love people pointing this issue ... as the APU sound must be on the top 10 list of issues jetliner developers contend and tear out their hair:the APU cannot be heard in most airliners from the cockpit (not the flaps, cabin calls, etc.) another fun sound complaint: the engine sounds. these are different in cockpit than for those sitting in the cabin (where 99% of simmers are if they fly r/w). engine tone changes depending on your seat location (why the old DC9/MD80/MD90/717 are quiet when forward of the wings --- you can't hear the engines, only wind noise), but walk back to use the head ... WOW (esp. on the 9's). result for developers: simmers complain that 1) the engine sound is wrong; and 2) the wind noise is to loud. well yes, because your only experience is sitting in coach.what developers do with sound is take artistic license. some users enjoy what is modeled, others complain.FT got bashed at release of the 737 and later when issuing a patch that changing the trim wheel sound. prior to the patch the sound was incorrect (according to the majority). a simmer that works on REAL 737 classics recorded a trim wheel in operation and offered it as a mod. the overall response was positive from those wanting realism, so FT made this the standard sound. complaints: its to loud, its not right, is doesn't sound like the NGs ... i guess recording it off a real plane isn't 'real' enough.let us focus on the issues that make any developers aircraft unflyable - which to me are: CTDs, out of line flight dynamics, autopilot doesn't work, and the inability to set a flight plan (to name a few). ... and if you have one of these challenges, give the developer some respect by posting on his/her forum a description of the challenge and what was being done that cause the reproducible error. posting IT SUCKS does not help, it only shows the poster's lack of civility.i've put on my nomex and am ready for the flames.--

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Just a thought on feelthere continuing to use Wilco as publisher - isn't it possible they signed a multi-project deal in the past and may therefore be unable to switch publishers just now?

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Dillon wrote:>You can't>praise the PSS 777 and put down the FeelThere 737's FDE when>the same designer has done both projects. Sure I can. Just like I can praise Tom Cruise for his work in The Last Samurai and at the same time tell him he sucked in Eyes Wide Shut. >This whole beef with FeelThere is BS. Feelthere (not Wilco)>are very much of the mindset of releasing the best product>they possibly can. A demonstration of that committment would be a really cool thing. Hint: this Wilco release fiaso doesn't 'zackly qualify in the "show us your committment" department. FeelThere does not get a pass...they CHOSE this publisher, and the release disaster is a result of their extremely poor choice. Now all eyes are upon them to see if they can make it right.>The mindless comments I'm hearing in this>thread is crap. I was thinking the same thing about your post here. Just because you don't agree does not make it "mindless." In fact, it seems to me your objectivity is severely in question here...you seem to have a vested interest as if you might actually be a participant in this debacle.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

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I didn't catch the APU sound comment... :-roll For the record, we should never be able to hear the APU on any airliner...

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Quote: "i love people pointing this issue ... as the APU sound must be on the top 10 list of issues jetliner developers contend and tear out their hair:"Well FT put it in there, not me, and if they take it out totally, fine. But it is reproducible, has been reported and is an example of lack of quality control. Hence the reason my list said "Really simple issues like. . ." ;-) I agree we shouldn't be pointing out these issues - but only because they shouldn't there in the first place.Joe Lorenc

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