Citation X fans...

[Guest ThrottleUp]

Ermmm...Im sorry for this silly question but....why does Citation X have no autothrottle in real life? How does the CX tell the autopilot to hold a certain speed, Im curious to know thank you :)

[N400QW 205]

Do a little search on custom autopilots with true VNAV capability and check on FADEC as well:-)

[Guest ThrottleUp]

Ron I am waiting (impatiently!) for your CX V2 http://www.planet-smilies.de/kaos/CreamPuf...s/bloblaugh.gifReally enjoying the Citation II SP and CJ1 :)

[Bob Scott 7,719]

>If the other publisher can afford to offer a true FSX model>with FSX "bells and whistles" for no return on their skill and>labor that is their business. Well, it's not a "no return" situation...if they can develop both and sell them for less return than, say, y'all, then that's clearly to their advantage...more bang for the customer's buck.>Either way you or I state it, users are challenged with>purchase decisions based on a fair assessment of the feature>lists, actual features delivered, overall package quality, and>of course product support and support forums, ecommerce>delivery and refund options, etc.And on that we agree. If it comes down to FeelThere's Citation X only available through the intense a$$ pain of a purchase via Wilco's overloaded servers, or yours via Flight1's wrapper with a money-back guarantee, then you clearly will have an advantage there. The feature lists, quality etc of course are important...but only as delivered, however, not as advertised.I think you're both decent outfits, with a different set of strengths and weaknesses. I, for one, am glad to see some healthy competition to keep everyone on their respective toes.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[N400QW 205]

>Bob wrote: The feature lists, quality etc of course are important...but only as delivered, however, not as advertised.Bob, I think we already stated that fact earlier. Perhaps a reread will help. If users are unable to discern between a publishers marketing claims and what is actually delivered they certainly have more problems than we can help them with:-)Our CX2.0 has been undergoing our own unique development process for a quite a long time now and frankly it is a "labor of love" for us.To repeat, we are building the finest Citation X 750 we can build and support and are quite happy to rely on users intelligent approach to their own purchase decisions.Hope this helps.

[THEBULL 0]

>Ermmm...Im sorry>for this silly question but....why does Citation X have no>autothrottle in real life? How does the CX tell the autopilot>to hold a certain speed, Im curious to know thank you :)Hi Nevin !The Citation X AP holds IAS by adjusting pitch it is very easy andconvinient. Climb - lets say climb at 250 kts... set climb thrust - at 250 kts press IAS and the plane climbs at 250 kts all the way up. By adjusting the V/S wheel you can adjust airspeed as well (wheel down speed up - wheel up speed down) Descend - lets say at 280 kts. throttle idle speed 280 kts press IAS and so on...you can find a very good freeware autopilot in the ATR42 package by Francisco Sanchez Castaner here in the avsim lib, that works almost the same as the Citation X AP. There is no autothrottle (in real) in most of the "small" jets CRJ,ERJ, Lear, Citation ....and absolutly NO autothrottle in any turboprop aircraft ! Hope this helps ...Tom (LOWW)

[digitalmarks 0]

I know neither version it out yet but I'm already leaning towards Feelthere.The Feelthere Legacy is a simply spectacular aircraft to fly and as previously discussed has a throughly modeled FMC and avionics suite. Eye candy is nice but I'm more focused on the techincal aspect of flying.Also knowing I won't have to buy it again if I ever upgrade to FSX is a plus!/Dave

[Guest]

Either way, I hope this spurs some competition between them and encourages them to innovate a little more.

[N400QW 205]

Hey Dave, long time no see...seems like we sort of lost touch with each other:-) At any rate, our policy is to provide owners of our FS9 products up to 30% discount for FSX versions of our products. In fact, we are working on extending that FSX 30% discount beyond the original 30 Days in order to allow that benefit to folks who are just now considering FSX as their Flightsim platform. More on this as we progress:-)

[windycloud 30]

>The Feelthere Legacy is a simply spectacular aircraft to fly>and as previously discussed has a throughly modeled FMC and>avionics suite. Eye candy is nice but I'm more focused on the>techincal aspect of flying.>I have the legacy and I like it a lot. The VC doesn't look great but the avionics are well done. The one and only relatively complete Honeywell in the market so far. The plane handles nicely IMO. But there are some not so good things on the other hand. For example I don't feel the autopilot works all that well and the anti ice system, when kicks in in icing condition, boosts N1 by about 10%, making it kinda impossible to decend even on idle. I don't know if the real thing is like that or not.Just some thoughts since you mentioned the legacy.Jason

[B777ER 2,484]

Well, FWIW, I owned the version 1 of the Eaglesoft CX and while nice, the framerates and system memory used by it were just too much for my liking and I removed/deleted it. Having said that, if they can improve the above issues, I think I will go with the Eaglesoft version for FS9. I will just have to wait and see the reports of performance on it.

[windycloud 30]

>Well, FWIW, I owned the version 1 of the Eaglesoft CX and>while nice, the framerates and system memory used by it were>just too much for my liking and I removed/deleted it. Having>said that, if they can improve the above issues, I think I>will go with the Eaglesoft version for FS9. I will just have>to wait and see the reports of performance on it.Eric. Have you upgraded your computer since then? The X was a demanding addon for me back then. But two years and two computers later when I reinstalled the X lately I can't see the performance difference between it and the default 172. (FPS locked at 26)JasonEdit: I think what deserves attention is VC gauge refresh rate.

[N400QW 205]

"Edit: I think what deserves attention is VC gauge refresh rate."Already being addressed in CX2.0 :-)

[WarpD 824]

>>Ermmm...Im>sorry>>for this silly question but....why does Citation X have no>>autothrottle in real life? How does the CX tell the>autopilot>>to hold a certain speed, Im curious to know thank you :)>>Hi Nevin !>>The Citation X AP holds IAS by adjusting pitch it is very easy>and>convinient. Climb - lets say climb at 250 kts... set climb>thrust - at 250 kts press IAS and the plane climbs at 250 kts>all the way up. By adjusting the V/S wheel you can adjust>airspeed as well (wheel down speed up - wheel up speed down)>Descend - lets say at 280 kts. throttle idle speed 280 kts>press IAS and so on...>you can find a very good freeware autopilot in the ATR42>package by Francisco Sanchez Castaner here in the avsim lib,>that works almost the same as the Citation X AP. >>There is no autothrottle (in real) in most of the "small" jets>>CRJ,ERJ, Lear, Citation ....>and absolutly NO autothrottle in any turboprop aircraft ! >>Hope this helps ...>>Tom (LOWW)>>The Citation X does not have an IAS button in it's autopilot.Just to clear this up a bit, here's what the real deal can and can not do:1) No servo-linked autothrottle. The pilot positions the throttle levers to the desired thrust level. The Citation X has "detent" positions for specific thrust modes such as cruise/climb/takeoff. The resulting N1 is based on a FADEC control system that determines the correct level to maintain.2) No actual airspeed/mach hold function on the AP control interface. You can't dial in a speed/mach value and tell it to hold that. The only speed control, per se, is with VNAV or FLC functionality.3) FADEC throttle control monitors throttle lever position and controls the engine's N1 values based on weight/altitude.4) VNAV FMS controls airspeed/mach based on weight/altitude/thrust by automatically adjusting the vertical speed. The desired airspeed is part of the programmed flight plan and is based on settings in the FMS.5) FLC FMS control works like VNAV for controlling airspeed, however the initial airspeed is whatever speed you're doing when it's activated... and then the pilot can dial the speed up/down as desired or needed.6) ALT hold is designed that when you press it, whatever alt you're currently at is held.7) VS hold is designed that when you press it, whatever VS you dial in is held.

[Mike T 208]

In such aircraft such as the ERJ and the CX, FADEC allows computer management of thrust (I mean a LOT of management). So much so, that if you lose the FADEC computers you may also lose your thrust...which is why it is a redundant system. Your throttles are connected to the FADEC system, and not directly to the engines. The FMC computers will calculate approximate values for you and simply have to move the throttle settings to the calculated TO/CLB/CRZ/CON settings displayed on the thrust management limit bar...just as any EEC equipped aircraft with one difference...the throttle won't move on its own. VNAV settings allow the aircraft to control speed via pitch for a given thrust settings as entered into the FMC. In a climb, the pilot can select the "SPEED" selector where in an aircraft equipped with autothrottles the throttles will attempt to control the speed regardless of pitch. Instead, the CX will pitch to control speed for a given throttle setting and adjust pitch to maintain speed.In CRZ mode, very little throttle management is required, but it still requires more monitoring than the set and forget autothrottle type aircraft. For instance, if your 75 kt headwind suddenly goes away, you must change the power setting or you will overspeed since the computer will not change the setting for you.The most interation with the throttles will be on descent and approach especially as you deploy gear and flaps. Only intermittent thrust trimming is required as your aircraft's fuel load get's lighter, winds, SAT changes, etc.In short, FADEC equipped aircraft allow precise thrust management, it just doesn't move the throttles for you. That's what God give ya 10 fingers for! :-)In a correctly modeled FADEC equipped aircraft, its a very satisfying and interactive experience over "set and forget" full autothrottle aircraft.Hope this helps a little.