Feelthere Citation X

[Bob Scott 7,715]

I hope Victor reconsiders. He has always seemed a reasonable guy, so maybe he might. But if we're left to deal only with Wilco for support of the Citation X, then it's fair to say FeelThere has indeed ditched us. And it can and will be held against them. That's fair.There is no Eaglesoft Citation X V2 to compare it with yet...but the fact that it will come in a Flight1 wrapper with a 30-day money-back guarantee and a live support forum is looking like a more and more significant discriminator right now.For now, though, we owe it to each other to air the issues with the product in an open forum like this one so that user-to-user assistance can continue, and so that prospective buyers get an idea of what's there from something other than Wilco's website hype.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[Arklight1 140]

>>>I honestly don't remember exactly how it works, but I don't>>think it is the same "contract" for all of their aircraft,>>i.e., I don't think all of their add-ons fall under the same>>umbrella of support and whatnot.>>>>Remember, Feelthere is pretty much a 1-man show. Vic does>the>>best he can by himself, and in a lot of ways, he is somewhat>>at the mercy of Wilco. >>Sorry, Shane, but FeelThere is absolutely, positively>NOT a 1-man show. Read the product credits. In fact,>Victor has different development teams working different>products now. In fact, I dare say FT is as big an operation>as any of 'em.>>Whatever contracts there are were entered into by Vic and>company. The support we get or don't get...and how we get it,>was his to negotiate. The buck stops there--no mea culpa>accepted here.>>Regards>>Bob Scott>ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V>Santiago de Chile>>Who is on his development team?When I worked with him on the ERJ, it was pretty much him and I and maybe one other person who were online working. There were a few times that it was ONLY him and I online testing out the aircraft. Were there other beta testers? I think there might have been a few, but I was the first one there, and when I was online testing it was usually me alone, or Vic and I. I believe he had a guy who did gauges, but other than that we were pretty darn small.We are sometimes required to negotiate even when we do not want too. It wasn't a simple process that was taken care of in a few minutes.I am actually glad Vic has an actual devleopment team now. He works way too much and should spend more time with his family. :)

[moss1 11]

Hi Bob, Have you gotten a chance to do a couple of flights with the product yet? I am anxiously waiting to see what the performance is like, among the other things. Thanks for any input you may have.

[Arklight1 140]

>I hope Victor reconsiders. He has always seemed a reasonable>guy, so maybe he might. But if we're left to deal only with>Wilco for support of the Citation X, then it's fair to say>FeelThere has indeed ditched us. And it can and will be held>against them. That's fair.>>There is no Eaglesoft Citation X V2 to compare it with>yet...but the fact that it will come in a Flight1 wrapper with>a 30-day money-back guarantee and a live support forum is>looking like a more and more significant discriminator right>now.>>For now, though, we owe it to each other to air the issues>with the product in an open forum like this one so that>user-to-user assistance can continue, and so that prospective>buyers get an idea of what's there from something other than>Wilco's website hype.>>Regards>>Bob Scott>ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V>Santiago de ChileMaybe I don't get the whole "ditched" feeling because I know Vic on a more personal level and I just don't seem him doing that. I do agree with you on our duty though to get as many issues out as possible. It is a good way to communicate issues and whatnot. I only wish there was a higher level of maturity here at times. People who name themselves things like "I 8 Foolthere" completely lose any credibility.Bob, keep in mind, I have just rejoined the Feelthere team and am still in the process of catching up on all of the changes. I do respect and value your opinion though and appreciate the fact that you communicate your feelings in a respectful manner, rather than exemplify the bovine scatology that seems to plauge many a thread here when a new release is put out.

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

Forensic Science... You win. "CSI Avsim"

[AWACS 12]

So how is it Bob?Jeff

[B777ER 2,484]

@Bob -"There is no Eaglesoft Citation X V2 to compare it with yet...but the fact that it will come in a Flight1 wrapper with a 30-day money-back guarantee and a live support forum is looking like a more and more significant discriminator right now"Amen. Will wait for the Eaglesoft CX for sure especially as they are doing a FS9 version. I just hope Eaglesoft can lessen the frame rate hit their version 1 had on my system. I am really looking forward to them releasing it. By the by, anyone got at least a ballpark timeframe for the Eaglesoft release?

[Guest YukonPete]

Ive been into FS for over 10 Years. I have been downloading and purchasing FS ad dons for just as long and I really enjoy some of the feelthere aircraft like the 737pic. I also own the new Airbus Vol.1 but have not really tested it out yet. But from what I've seen, the Feelthere aircraft are nice. Far better then the re-hashed Biz jets that eaglesoft release with half the functions missing. I remember eagle soft saying years ago when they first started out, That there future aircraft would have all the bells and whistles. But that didn't happen. Of course they will deny ever saying that

[Guest]

At least you can sort of understand how Eaglesoft works...with FeelThere, when they release an airplane whos speedbrakes act like giant barn doors welded to the wing, you really gotta wonder who beta tests these. How could someone miss something like that?

[Arklight1 140]

>At least you can sort of understand how Eaglesoft>works...with FeelThere, when they release an airplane whos>speedbrakes act like giant barn doors welded to the wing, you>really gotta wonder who beta tests these. How could someone>miss something like that?I take it you have never been a beta tester.Some people seem to think that if there is a bug in a product, then it MUST be because the beta testers missed it. There is NO way that the bug was noticed, but slated to be worked on later due to time contraints. All bugs that get through the beta process MUST be due to poor beta testing.Good lord. :-lolCould it be possible that the CX's speedbrakes really do create that level of drag? The CX has pretty large wings (relatively speaking). It's almost as if the aircraft is all wing and engine. lol

[windycloud 30]

.....when they release an airplane whos>speedbrakes act like giant barn doors welded to the wing.......My eaglesoft CX v1's speedbreaks do that too. Maybe only on my machine?

[Bob Scott 7,715]

>I take it you have never been a beta tester.And I take it you have never piloted a real jet aircraft.>Some people seem to think that if there is a bug in a product,>then it MUST be because the beta testers missed it. There is>NO way that the bug was noticed, but slated to be worked on>later due to time contraints. All bugs that get through the>beta process MUST be due to poor beta testing.A bug this obvious that gets through indicates a pretty shallow beta, or a developer that releases on a timeline regardless of the bugs. Point is that it's an obvious problem that should never have made it to release. >Could it be possible that the CX's speedbrakes really do>create that level of drag? No, it couldn't. Back to my first comment above.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[Guest]

Pretty much how I feel.

[Arklight1 140]

>>I take it you have never been a beta tester.>>And I take it you have never piloted a real jet aircraft.>>>Some people seem to think that if there is a bug in a>product,>>then it MUST be because the beta testers missed it. There is>>NO way that the bug was noticed, but slated to be worked on>>later due to time contraints. All bugs that get through the>>beta process MUST be due to poor beta testing.>>A bug this obvious that gets through indicates a pretty>shallow beta, or a developer that releases on a timeline>regardless of the bugs. Point is that it's an obvious problem>that should never have made it to release. >>>Regards>>Bob Scott>ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V>Santiago de Chile*From only a beta testing point of view*There are a NUMBER of bugs I have seen in various betas from different developers. Do I report them? Yes. Do they all get fixed? Nope. Why? Usually because there is not enough time. Other times, who knows. It isn't my job as a beta tester to dictate to the developer how and when things should be fixed. All I can do, and all I am supposed to do, is find bugs and report them. What should and shouldn't make it to release is a moot issue to a beta tester, and is outside the scope of the job. We can only make recommendations and point out bugs, we don't make release decisions. I don't model in Gmax or 3DStudio Max. I don't program gauges, and I don't create FDEs. All I do is find bugs and tell the developer. Nothing more. I can say we need to put off release, but that does not mean it will happen.I like FS too much to sit around all day and nit-pick design/release decisions. I'm just happy being able to help out during the beta tests and do what I can to make the product better. If the things I say need to be fixed get fixed, than great. If not, there's not a whole lot I can do about it.Ona side note, I just read that the Speedbrake is a known issue to the FT team and they will be fixing it. :)http://www.iemit.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8407

[Bob Scott 7,715]

The solution to the Wilco/FeelThere Citation X spoiler problem is a simple aircraft.cfg file edit.In the airplane_geometry section, there is a line spoiler_limit=, which has the ridiculous value of 766 degrees of spoiler travel. Change it to 60, and the spoilers will act a little more normal.And while you're at it, rudder travel of 77 degrees is equally stupid...should be 30 degrees.Wonder why Wilco and/or FeelThere couldn't just post this simple fix of an obvious error rather than taking better part of a week to just acknowledge it's an issue.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile