Feelthere Citation X

[ErnieAlston 33]

>I find this statement frankly astonishing. I submit that providing >proper support is fully HALF that which qualifies a 'good' >developer...Well I certainly disagree with that.A good developer produces a good 'product' first and foremost. Support is merely icing on the cake after the fact.An excellent product won't need a lot of support, A bad product will need a ton of support.Regards.Ernie.

[ztimbre 0]

I have to agree: the model is not good. The nose-to-windscreen angle is too sharp, the body is too short, the blend from the wingbox to the fuselage is exaggerated and the leading edge of the engine nacelles is too large. (All of these criticisms based on the screenshots on their website).Couple the poor model with the fact that they've made Wilco the arbiter of feedback/complaints and I have to say they will not be getting my money this time. It's a shame, since I could be called a "loyal customer", having purchased a couple of their products and really loving their Legacy. As one who really likes the CX, I would have been first in line to buy a well done rendition from FeelThere.Too bad really....

[MarkRey 16]

Our basic views are not dissimilar, but our paradigms seem to be. Clearly a basically sound product is the starting point, but in the exponentially expanding world of software/hardware, support makes or breaks customer loyalty. Even the essentially good products have had issues, generated queries etc. Surely you yourself can point to any number of highly respected names in FS that have had very active support forums, created SPs etc - or are they no good?Perhaps your product is an exception, but then it would be exactly that, an exception. regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpgPC Power Silencer 470/3.2HT/2048mb/ATI X1950pro/SB Audigy

[slait 169]

I'll be interested in hearing thoughts and opinions from those that actually have the product. Any of us can draw conclusions from screenshots, but I think the original poster was hoping to hear from someone who's actually used it.

[ErnieAlston 33]

>Our basic views are not dissimilar, but our paradigms seem to be. >Clearly a basically sound product is the starting point, but in the >exponentially expanding world of software/hardware, support makes >or breaks customer loyalty. I don't think so. If a product is not very good it doesn't matter how good the support is, you aren't going to have many loyal customers.Loyalty is built when the customers are very satisfied with the product(s). Then many will buy the next product practically sight unseen based on reputation built on from their previous products.An example is PMDG, when their 747 came out they had a flood of loyal customers buying it as soon as it came out. And they were buying that PMDG 747 not because PMDG's support is so great but because there were previously very satisfied with their 747NG product.Or perhaps your own apparent loyaly to airlinerXP is in part due to the quality of RealityXP's and Dreamfleets products.>Even the essentially good products have had issues, generated >queries etc. Surely you yourself can point to any number of highly >respected names in FS that have had very active support forums, >created SPs etc - or are they no good?I don't disagree Support is important, it is a very valuable plus if you do it well. But that's all it is a plus.The positives of the product can make up for lousy support. But positive support (no matter how great) can never make up for a lousy product.Lets take an example of a very successfull product that has almost no support from its developer/staff.FSNavigator:And its been that way for years, you'll be waiting a long long long time for a response from the FSNav team.But when this FSX version of FSNav eventually comes out, they'll be lining up to buy it.The utilitarianism and usefullness of FSNavigator totally trumps any support negatives.I think we'd be hard pressed to find an example of the opposite.Regards.Ernie.

[Bob Scott 7,720]

Well, I have their C-X now. The download went much better than the ugly mess that I and many others endured after buying the FeelThere/Wilco Scarebus. OTOH, not sure demand for this one is nearly as high...probably a combo of people still angry from the Wilco Airbus experience, people not as interested in a bizjet as with the more mainstream Scarebus airliner, and people waiting to see the Eaglesoft competition before making a decision.Download was slow (38 KBps) but completed in one pass without timing out using FreeDownloadManager running 4 data streams.I note, with chagrin, that FeelThere is directing customers with issues to the Wilco site to fill out a web-based support form, and has their Citation X forum locked to posts. And the Wilco support page says to visit the FeelThere forum for support. That, folks, is screwed up, and needs fixed straight away. I wouldn't recommend anyone touch this product while that sort of arrangement exists, especially with Wilco's well-established reputation as one of the most egregious slackers in the business when it comes to product support.I also have to note that the FeelThere site says they are taking vacation from 30 Apr to 16 May...they're shutting down for vacation less than a week into a major product release?? Another one of those things that makes a guy go "hmmmmm."More to follow as flight testing gets underway.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-VSantiago de Chile

[MarkRey 16]

>>I think we'd be hard pressed to find an example of the>opposite.>>Regards.>Ernie.>opposite? lousy product? - you place me at your polar opposite so never mind. regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpgPC Power Silencer 470/3.2HT/2048mb/ATI X1950pro/SB Audigyps - I'm a very pragmatic guy - don't read too much into the sig.

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

Shutting down right after a major release? Really strange... I have a feeling that I'm going to sit this one out and wait for the Eaglesoft.

[Arklight1 140]

"I 8 Foolthere"Really mature.

[ErnieAlston 33]

>>>>I think we'd be hard pressed to find an example of the>>opposite.>>>>Regards.>>Ernie.>>>>opposite? lousy product? - you place me at your polar opposite>so never mind. The Opposite scenario would be excellent support, lousy product, but still product loyaltyRegards.Ernie.

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

First post, too.

[Arklight1 140]

>First post, too.Yeah. It is really too bad how some people decide to act. It is sort of disconcerting. lol

[MarkRey 16]

i did get that - and it's nowhere anyplace remotely near my point.regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpgPC Power Silencer 470/3.2HT/2048mb/ATI X1950pro/SB Audigy

[razorseal 0]

Just flew it... AMAZING sound jet, plane looks as far as I know and I see them everyday (the engines kind look big though)I really like the avionics, and again... AMAZING sounds :) the speedbrakes really let you know that you just put them out :)+1 from me... unlike others, I don't critize until I buy :) in this case, I bought it and like it.... I did a short hop flight, later on today I'll do a little longer flight to see whats up

[Arklight1 140]

>Well, I have their C-X now. The download went much better>than the ugly mess that I and many others endured after buying>the FeelThere/Wilco Scarebus. OTOH, not sure demand for this>one is nearly as high...probably a combo of people still angry>from the Wilco Airbus experience, people not as interested in>a bizjet as with the more mainstream Scarebus airliner, and>people waiting to see the Eaglesoft competition before making>a decision.>>Download was slow (38 KBps) but completed in one pass without>timing out using FreeDownloadManager running 4 data streams.>>I note, with chagrin, that FeelThere is directing customers>with issues to the Wilco site to fill out a web-based support>form, and has their Citation X forum locked to posts. And the>Wilco support page says to visit the FeelThere forum for>support. That, folks, is screwed up, and needs fixed straight>away. I wouldn't recommend anyone touch this product while>that sort of arrangement exists, especially with Wilco's>well-established reputation as one of the most egregious>slackers in the business when it comes to product support.>>I also have to note that the FeelThere site says they are>taking vacation from 30 Apr to 16 May...they're shutting down>for vacation less than a week into a major product release?? >Another one of those things that makes a guy go "hmmmmm.">>More to follow as flight testing gets underway.>>Regards>>Bob Scott>ATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V>Santiago de ChileI do believe that once a product is released, Feelthere pretty much MUST pass the support over to Wilco. It isn't Feelthere just deciding to ditch people (I hope that's not what people think). :(